Arkansas Governor signs new executive law to protect women.

[Della]

Now you are being disingenuous. You have posted frequently about transgender women in sport, penis's in the locker room, how drag queens and books with sexual themes no matter how benign are scaring "our children". Sally has ALWAYS responded with a lot of thought with a focus on fairness as this is a topic that she cares about enough to have designed an appropriate, accessible bathroom, for goodness sake. Her approach has always been one of fairness and equity.

You are WELL aware of the dangers of exclusion to the LGBTQ community, especially LGBTQ youth, as your daughter, as a member of that community, was bullied out of high school. Don't try to minimize that danger in order to try to score points.

You two are the only ones trying to conflate kids assaulting you with sports teams being un-inclusive to everyone…


MOST kids in the high school don’t make it onto the team… whatever gender they are…a lot of teams have 25 open spots and 1500 kids that go to the school. Competing at a high level isn’t for everyone.

It's all part and parcel. Denying transgender women the ability to participate in athletics at the primary school, university, or professional level is equal to denying transgender women the ability to use the bathroom of the S*x they identify. It's "othering" and this "othering" leads to bullying, anxiety, increased risk of suicide, and other harms.

Take the article posted in this forum about 16/17 year old basketball player Tate Dageset. The "lovely" Riley Gaines proudly outed her as transgender so her place at Washington State was rescinded. In addition, she has had numerous articles about her in conservative news articles mis-gendering her, dead naming her and multiple threats against not just her but her family. Yeah Riley?

It just feels that in these conversations, the feelings of actual transgender women and girls who are the ones most affected are discarded because obviously cis-gender women's feelings are the only ones that count. I will never, ever agree with that and if we look back on history, I'm pretty confident that I'm on the right side.

Here is a picture of Tate Drageset. She's one of the one's that we cis-gender women need "protection" from. I have more faith in women that that. We can come up with a fair, inclusive way to ensure that all women have a place in athletics, in the arts, in every facet of life where we hold spaces. I just don't buy for a second that 1% of the population and 0.025% of the athletic community are a threat. I also don't buy that we need to discriminate one segment of women for others to succeed.

[Slimshandy]

Now you are being disingenuous. You have posted frequently about transgender women in sport, penis's in the locker room, how drag queens and books with sexual themes no matter how benign are scaring "our children". Sally has ALWAYS responded with a lot of thought with a focus on fairness as this is a topic that she cares about enough to have designed an appropriate, accessible bathroom, for goodness sake. Her approach has always been one of fairness and equity.

You are WELL aware of the dangers of exclusion to the LGBTQ community, especially LGBTQ youth, as your daughter, as a member of that community, was bullied out of high school. Don't try to minimize that danger in order to try to score points.

You two are the only ones trying to conflate kids assaulting you with sports teams being un-inclusive to everyone…


MOST kids in the high school don’t make it onto the team… whatever gender they are…a lot of teams have 25 open spots and 1500 kids that go to the school. Competing at a high level isn’t for everyone.

It's all part and parcel. Denying transgender women the ability to participate in athletics at the primary school, university, or professional level is equal to denying transgender women the ability to use the bathroom of the S*x they identify. It's "othering" and this "othering" leads to bullying, anxiety, increased risk of suicide, and other harms.

Take the article posted in this forum about 16/17 year old basketball player Tate Dageset. The "lovely" Riley Gaines proudly outed her as transgender so her place at Washington State was rescinded. In addition, she has had numerous articles about her in conservative news articles mis-gendering her, dead naming her and multiple threats against not just her but her family. Yeah Riley?

It just feels that in these conversations, the feelings of actual transgender women and girls who are the ones most affected are discarded because obviously cis-gender women's feelings are the only ones that count. I will never, ever agree with that and if we look back on history, I'm pretty confident that I'm on the right side.

Here is a picture of Tate Drageset. She's one of the one's that we cis-gender women need "protection" from. I have more faith in women that that. We can come up with a fair, inclusive way to ensure that all women have a place in athletics, in the arts, in every facet of life where we hold spaces. I just don't buy for a second that 1% of the population and 0.025% of the athletic community are a threat. I also don't buy that we need to discriminate one segment of women for others to succeed.

It’s not at all that any woman needs protection from trans athletes.


It Should be ok to say, I think the physical advantage they have is unfair to natural born women.



It’s never ok to assault someone, it’s never ok to verbally attack them, it’s never ok to write articles about them for the sole reasoning of hurting them…


It is ok to ask if the physical advantages equate to an unfair playing field.




You like to bring up my daughter , and yes, she was bullied out of school for being gay, and yes, she did have to deal with assault… but she’s also one of the best players on her club soccer team, and I don’t think it would be fair to have her body checked by someone who is 6’4 and 200 pounds. It doesn’t matter what her preferences are, it matters what would be fair to her and her physical health. ( because yes, body checks can really injure you)

[WellPreserved]

You two are the only ones trying to conflate kids assaulting you with sports teams being un-inclusive to everyone…


MOST kids in the high school don’t make it onto the team… whatever gender they are…a lot of teams have 25 open spots and 1500 kids that go to the school. Competing at a high level isn’t for everyone.

It's all part and parcel. Denying transgender women the ability to participate in athletics at the primary school, university, or professional level is equal to denying transgender women the ability to use the bathroom of the S*x they identify. It's "othering" and this "othering" leads to bullying, anxiety, increased risk of suicide, and other harms.

Take the article posted in this forum about 16/17 year old basketball player Tate Dageset. The "lovely" Riley Gaines proudly outed her as transgender so her place at Washington State was rescinded. In addition, she has had numerous articles about her in conservative news articles mis-gendering her, dead naming her and multiple threats against not just her but her family. Yeah Riley?

It just feels that in these conversations, the feelings of actual transgender women and girls who are the ones most affected are discarded because obviously cis-gender women's feelings are the only ones that count. I will never, ever agree with that and if we look back on history, I'm pretty confident that I'm on the right side.

Here is a picture of Tate Drageset. She's one of the one's that we cis-gender women need "protection" from. I have more faith in women that that. We can come up with a fair, inclusive way to ensure that all women have a place in athletics, in the arts, in every facet of life where we hold spaces. I just don't buy for a second that 1% of the population and 0.025% of the athletic community are a threat. I also don't buy that we need to discriminate one segment of women for others to succeed.

It’s not at all that any woman needs protection from trans athletes.


It Should be ok to say, I think the physical advantage they have is unfair to natural born women.



It’s never ok to assault someone, it’s never ok to verbally attack them, it’s never ok to write articles about them for the sole reasoning of hurting them…


It is ok to ask if the physical advantages equate to an unfair playing field.




You like to bring up my daughter , and yes, she was bullied out of school for being gay, and yes, she did have to deal with assault… but she’s also one of the best players on her club soccer team, and I don’t think it would be fair to have her body checked by someone who is 6’4 and 200 pounds. It doesn’t matter what her preferences are, it matters what would be fair to her and her physical health. ( because yes, body checks can really injure you)

What if she were transgender? What would you tell her?

[Slimshandy]

It's all part and parcel. Denying transgender women the ability to participate in athletics at the primary school, university, or professional level is equal to denying transgender women the ability to use the bathroom of the S*x they identify. It's "othering" and this "othering" leads to bullying, anxiety, increased risk of suicide, and other harms.

Take the article posted in this forum about 16/17 year old basketball player Tate Dageset. The "lovely" Riley Gaines proudly outed her as transgender so her place at Washington State was rescinded. In addition, she has had numerous articles about her in conservative news articles mis-gendering her, dead naming her and multiple threats against not just her but her family. Yeah Riley?

It just feels that in these conversations, the feelings of actual transgender women and girls who are the ones most affected are discarded because obviously cis-gender women's feelings are the only ones that count. I will never, ever agree with that and if we look back on history, I'm pretty confident that I'm on the right side.

Here is a picture of Tate Drageset. She's one of the one's that we cis-gender women need "protection" from. I have more faith in women that that. We can come up with a fair, inclusive way to ensure that all women have a place in athletics, in the arts, in every facet of life where we hold spaces. I just don't buy for a second that 1% of the population and 0.025% of the athletic community are a threat. I also don't buy that we need to discriminate one segment of women for others to succeed.

It’s not at all that any woman needs protection from trans athletes.


It Should be ok to say, I think the physical advantage they have is unfair to natural born women.



It’s never ok to assault someone, it’s never ok to verbally attack them, it’s never ok to write articles about them for the sole reasoning of hurting them…


It is ok to ask if the physical advantages equate to an unfair playing field.




You like to bring up my daughter , and yes, she was bullied out of school for being gay, and yes, she did have to deal with assault… but she’s also one of the best players on her club soccer team, and I don’t think it would be fair to have her body checked by someone who is 6’4 and 200 pounds. It doesn’t matter what her preferences are, it matters what would be fair to her and her physical health. ( because yes, body checks can really injure you)

What if she were transgender? What would you tell her?

What do you care?
Are you actually wondering what someone who deals with this thinks,
Or are you once again just trying to have something to argue about?

[WellPreserved]

It’s not at all that any woman needs protection from trans athletes.


It Should be ok to say, I think the physical advantage they have is unfair to natural born women.



It’s never ok to assault someone, it’s never ok to verbally attack them, it’s never ok to write articles about them for the sole reasoning of hurting them…


It is ok to ask if the physical advantages equate to an unfair playing field.




You like to bring up my daughter , and yes, she was bullied out of school for being gay, and yes, she did have to deal with assault… but she’s also one of the best players on her club soccer team, and I don’t think it would be fair to have her body checked by someone who is 6’4 and 200 pounds. It doesn’t matter what her preferences are, it matters what would be fair to her and her physical health. ( because yes, body checks can really injure you)

What if she were transgender? What would you tell her?

What do you care?
Are you actually wondering what someone who deals with this thinks,
Or are you once again just trying to have something to argue about?

I think when we have discussions like this it's important to bring relatable human experience to it rather than just an a hypothetical approach. Often, "what if it was your child" is a way to introduce that human element.

I do honestly wonder what transgender girls and transgender women think. Why wouldn't I? We're discussing them, aren't we?

You're on a discussion forum and naturally, discussion sometimes leads to disagreement. I enjoy discussing and sometimes (okay oftentimes) disagreeing. If I wanted to be on a group with people I only agreed with, I'd stick to Pinterest boards.

[Slimshandy]

What if she were transgender? What would you tell her?

What do you care?
Are you actually wondering what someone who deals with this thinks,
Or are you once again just trying to have something to argue about?

I think when we have discussions like this it's important to bring relatable human experience to it rather than just an a hypothetical approach. Often, "what if it was your child" is a way to introduce that human element.

I do honestly wonder what transgender girls and transgender women think. Why wouldn't I? We're discussing them, aren't we?

You're on a discussion forum and naturally, discussion sometimes leads to disagreement. I enjoy discussing and sometimes (okay oftentimes) disagreeing. If I wanted to be on a group with people I only agreed with, I'd stick to Pinterest boards.

If she was born a female, transitioned into a man, I would still say there are more appropriate sports to get involved in rather than full contact sports.


Even if they transitioned, they would have a much higher chance of being hurt by full contact.

[WellPreserved]

What do you care?
Are you actually wondering what someone who deals with this thinks,
Or are you once again just trying to have something to argue about?

I think when we have discussions like this it's important to bring relatable human experience to it rather than just an a hypothetical approach. Often, "what if it was your child" is a way to introduce that human element.

I do honestly wonder what transgender girls and transgender women think. Why wouldn't I? We're discussing them, aren't we?

You're on a discussion forum and naturally, discussion sometimes leads to disagreement. I enjoy discussing and sometimes (okay oftentimes) disagreeing. If I wanted to be on a group with people I only agreed with, I'd stick to Pinterest boards.

If she was born a female, transitioned into a man, I would still say there are more appropriate sports to get involved in rather than full contact sports.


Even if they transitioned, they would have a much higher chance of being hurt by full contact.

And if they were born male and transitioned to female? I think if that were the case for me at this time, I would emphasize early on to go into non-gendered sport like archery, motor cross, or riding, lol. I'm not sure what I would do if she had a passion for a gendered sport like running but gosh I hope that I would be supportive.

And just curious about where you stand but I've also read about transgender women taking away opportunity from cis-gender women in the form of modeling contracts, pageants, and other non-sport related activities. Are you on-board with that or do you think it's just a fairness in sport issue and if a transgender woman wants to be Miss A, she should go for it?

[Slimshandy]

I think when we have discussions like this it's important to bring relatable human experience to it rather than just an a hypothetical approach. Often, "what if it was your child" is a way to introduce that human element.

I do honestly wonder what transgender girls and transgender women think. Why wouldn't I? We're discussing them, aren't we?

You're on a discussion forum and naturally, discussion sometimes leads to disagreement. I enjoy discussing and sometimes (okay oftentimes) disagreeing. If I wanted to be on a group with people I only agreed with, I'd stick to Pinterest boards.

If she was born a female, transitioned into a man, I would still say there are more appropriate sports to get involved in rather than full contact sports.


Even if they transitioned, they would have a much higher chance of being hurt by full contact.

And if they were born male and transitioned to female? I think if that were the case for me at this time, I would emphasize early on to go into non-gendered sport like archery, motor cross, or riding, lol. I'm not sure what I would do if she had a passion for a gendered sport like running but gosh I hope that I would be supportive.

And just curious about where you stand but I've also read about transgender women taking away opportunity from cis-gender women in the form of modeling contracts, pageants, and other non-sport related activities. Are you on-board with that or do you think it's just a fairness in sport issue and if a transgender woman wants to be Miss A, she should go for it?

I just find it that; I would want to be supportive, but I wouldn’t want them to be harmed by my support. To be honest, I wouldn’t at all be supportive of my son wanting to go into boxing because he’s going to be really hurt getting to the top. I just wouldn’t want that.



As far as pageants go, that’s totally different… that’s just how “pretty” you are… and yeah, I am kind of against it even for natural born children- girls, but I don’t care whether it’s girls, boys, transgender kids, anything… if the goal is how good your hair and dress is, so be it… that’s not for anyone else to be concerned with other than the contestants.

[WellPreserved]

If she was born a female, transitioned into a man, I would still say there are more appropriate sports to get involved in rather than full contact sports.


Even if they transitioned, they would have a much higher chance of being hurt by full contact.

And if they were born male and transitioned to female? I think if that were the case for me at this time, I would emphasize early on to go into non-gendered sport like archery, motor cross, or riding, lol. I'm not sure what I would do if she had a passion for a gendered sport like running but gosh I hope that I would be supportive.

And just curious about where you stand but I've also read about transgender women taking away opportunity from cis-gender women in the form of modeling contracts, pageants, and other non-sport related activities. Are you on-board with that or do you think it's just a fairness in sport issue and if a transgender woman wants to be Miss A, she should go for it?

I just find it that; I would want to be supportive, but I wouldn’t want them to be harmed by my support. To be honest, I wouldn’t at all be supportive of my son wanting to go into boxing because he’s going to be really hurt getting to the top. I just wouldn’t want that.



As far as pageants go, that’s totally different… that’s just how “pretty” you are… and yeah, I am kind of against it even for natural born children- girls, but I don’t care whether it’s girls, boys, transgender kids, anything… if the goal is how good your hair and dress is, so be it… that’s not for anyone else to be concerned with other than the contestants.

The whole pageant thing is gross to me but they do come with scholarships and some pageants have banned transgender women (supported by court cases) as they take away scholarship opportunities from "real women".

Opportunities for women are pretty broad and if you discriminate against transgender women in one avenue (i.e. sport) it's just not a leap to discriminate against them in multiple avenues that don't involve sport.

Again, it's just a minute portion of the population but this segment can be (and are) denied routine services, can be denied medical services, can be denied the opportunity to pursue certain careers or hobbies or athletics or business opportunities. When we talk about barring transgender girls and women from sport, it's not limited to just sport, rather it includes a whole myriad of opportunities that women uniquely hold and we kinda hold a lot.

I tend to put myself in other's shoes a lot and wonder what would I do if it were my kid. I'm also insanely protective! If my kid were transgender, this is not the environment I would want them to be exposed to. Parents can only do so much but when your kid ventures out into school or the workplace or just life in general, we count on society being supportive which generally it is - for cis gender kids.

[Momto2boys973]

The issue I would have with pageants and modeling would be if trans people start being prioritized to make a statement or to use it as a form of propaganda. As long as it remains 100% fair and contestants don’t get some advantage because they’re transsexual, that’s OK.

If she was born a female, transitioned into a man, I would still say there are more appropriate sports to get involved in rather than full contact sports.


Even if they transitioned, they would have a much higher chance of being hurt by full contact.

And if they were born male and transitioned to female? I think if that were the case for me at this time, I would emphasize early on to go into non-gendered sport like archery, motor cross, or riding, lol. I'm not sure what I would do if she had a passion for a gendered sport like running but gosh I hope that I would be supportive.

And just curious about where you stand but I've also read about transgender women taking away opportunity from cis-gender women in the form of modeling contracts, pageants, and other non-sport related activities. Are you on-board with that or do you think it's just a fairness in sport issue and if a transgender woman wants to be Miss A, she should go for it?

I just find it that; I would want to be supportive, but I wouldn’t want them to be harmed by my support. To be honest, I wouldn’t at all be supportive of my son wanting to go into boxing because he’s going to be really hurt getting to the top. I just wouldn’t want that.



As far as pageants go, that’s totally different… that’s just how “pretty” you are… and yeah, I am kind of against it even for natural born children- girls, but I don’t care whether it’s girls, boys, transgender kids, anything… if the goal is how good your hair and dress is, so be it… that’s not for anyone else to be concerned with other than the contestants.