Arkansas Governor signs new executive law to protect women.

[Slimshandy]

Maybe when I retire, lol.

In the meantime, what we have is a very tiny number of trans people trying to find room to exist in sports and half a country in a full-blown moral panic over it. It's not warranted. Whatever benefit you think will be gained for women by this legislation will be more than offset by the harm to trans people from being singled out and barred from sports, and by the larger losses to women and society from enforcing traditional rigid gender orthodoxy.

No one is going into a moral panic…


That’s your way of dismissing their opinion.

People are saying it’s unfair, which it is, but you don’t think it happens often enough to matter. It matters to plenty of athletes. You just don’t care…

"Arkansas Governor signs new executive law to protect women" says otherwise, lol.

Your agreement or disagreement is irrelevant when considering whether or not other people are panicking…

[SallyMae]

No one is going into a moral panic…

That’s your way of dismissing their opinion.

People are saying it’s unfair, which it is, but you don’t think it happens often enough to matter. It matters to plenty of athletes. You just don’t care…

It's a moral panic when the risk is blown way out of proportion to the threat.

It matters to plenty of trans people, who have had it *very* unfair for a very long time, and to this day are far more likely to be assaulted and excluded and scapegoated and driven to suicide than anyone else in society.

What's more, I'm sure you *do* care, so instead of insulting and dehumanizing you, I figure that you are weighing competing value structures, as am I, and that you have valid reasons for caring as you do. Try it.

[PoplarGrove]

So why do you believe mens sports are separated from women’s sports?


Is it because that is a more fair playing field for women?

Because men didn't want us in their group. It's never been about fairness.

So when the top scientists in the field tell us that men have
“ larger heart, greater lung capacity, greater muscle mass, more red blood cells, and less body fat”


Do you believe those scientists are wrong?

You make this argument a lot. But if the transgender female in question has never gone through male puberty the only "male' thing they have is genitals and a y chromosome. They don't have the increased heart and lung capacity and larger muscle mass. So are THOSE transgender individuals allowed to participate in sports or are we just looking down people's pants to determine this?

[Slimshandy]

No one is going into a moral panic…

That’s your way of dismissing their opinion.

People are saying it’s unfair, which it is, but you don’t think it happens often enough to matter. It matters to plenty of athletes. You just don’t care…

It's a moral panic when the risk is blown way out of proportion to the threat.

It matters to plenty of trans people, who have had it *very* unfair for a very long time, and to this day are far more likely to be assaulted and excluded and scapegoated and driven to suicide than anyone else in society.

What's more, I'm sure you *do* care, so instead of insulting and dehumanizing you, I figure that you are weighing competing value structures, as am I, and that you have valid reasons for caring as you do. Try it.

So now people are going to kill themselves if they don’t compete on the women’s Olympic swim team? We’re not talking about anyone being assaulted… that’s another non-sequitur mean to make people emotionally react and forget that the conversation is about fairness In Sports


Talk about creating a moral panic….

[Slimshandy]

Because men didn't want us in their group. It's never been about fairness.

So when the top scientists in the field tell us that men have
“ larger heart, greater lung capacity, greater muscle mass, more red blood cells, and less body fat”


Do you believe those scientists are wrong?

You make this argument a lot. But if the transgender female in question has never gone through male puberty the only "male' thing they have is genitals and a y chromosome. They don't have the increased heart and lung capacity and larger muscle mass. So are THOSE transgender individuals allowed to participate in sports or are we just looking down people's pants to determine this?

Red blood cell count between a female body and male body doesn’t differ just because of puberty…




Do you know why it’s illegal for athletes to take their own blood, store it, and then reinject it right before they compete? Why is it called blood doping?

[WellPreserved]

No one is going into a moral panic…

That’s your way of dismissing their opinion.

People are saying it’s unfair, which it is, but you don’t think it happens often enough to matter. It matters to plenty of athletes. You just don’t care…

It's a moral panic when the risk is blown way out of proportion to the threat.

It matters to plenty of trans people, who have had it *very* unfair for a very long time, and to this day are far more likely to be assaulted and excluded and scapegoated and driven to suicide than anyone else in society.

What's more, I'm sure you *do* care, so instead of insulting and dehumanizing you, I figure that you are weighing competing value structures, as am I, and that you have valid reasons for caring as you do. Try it.

So now people are going to kill themselves if they don’t compete on the women’s Olympic swim team? We’re not talking about anyone being assaulted… that’s another non-sequitur mean to make people emotionally react and forget that the conversation is about fairness In Sports


Talk about creating a moral panic….

Now you are being disingenuous. You have posted frequently about transgender women in sport, penis's in the locker room, how drag queens and books with sexual themes no matter how benign are scaring "our children". Sally has ALWAYS responded with a lot of thought with a focus on fairness as this is a topic that she cares about enough to have designed an appropriate, accessible bathroom, for goodness sake. Her approach has always been one of fairness and equity.

You are WELL aware of the dangers of exclusion to the LGBTQ community, especially LGBTQ youth, as your daughter, as a member of that community, was bullied out of high school. Don't try to minimize that danger in order to try to score points.

[Slimshandy]

It's a moral panic when the risk is blown way out of proportion to the threat.

It matters to plenty of trans people, who have had it *very* unfair for a very long time, and to this day are far more likely to be assaulted and excluded and scapegoated and driven to suicide than anyone else in society.

What's more, I'm sure you *do* care, so instead of insulting and dehumanizing you, I figure that you are weighing competing value structures, as am I, and that you have valid reasons for caring as you do. Try it.

So now people are going to kill themselves if they don’t compete on the women’s Olympic swim team? We’re not talking about anyone being assaulted… that’s another non-sequitur mean to make people emotionally react and forget that the conversation is about fairness In Sports


Talk about creating a moral panic….

Now you are being disingenuous. You have posted frequently about transgender women in sport, penis's in the locker room, how drag queens and books with sexual themes no matter how benign are scaring "our children". Sally has ALWAYS responded with a lot of thought with a focus on fairness as this is a topic that she cares about enough to have designed an appropriate, accessible bathroom, for goodness sake. Her approach has always been one of fairness and equity.

You are WELL aware of the dangers of exclusion to the LGBTQ community, especially LGBTQ youth, as your daughter, as a member of that community, was bullied out of high school. Don't try to minimize that danger in order to try to score points.

You two are the only ones trying to conflate kids assaulting you with sports teams being un-inclusive to everyone…


MOST kids in the high school don’t make it onto the team… whatever gender they are…a lot of teams have 25 open spots and 1500 kids that go to the school. Competing at a high level isn’t for everyone.

[SallyMae]

So now people are going to kill themselves if they don’t compete on the women’s Olympic swim team? We’re not talking about anyone being assaulted… that’s another non-sequitur mean to make people emotionally react and forget that the conversation is about fairness In Sports

Talk about creating a moral panic….

Let me connect the dots for you.

People abuse power by doing whatever they can get away with. Trans people don't attempt suicide because they can't get on the women's Olympic swim team. They do it because they are hated, feared, bullied, rejected and psychologically tortured over their very identity, by others who are abusing power.

When the governor of the state affirms that trans athletes are trying to hurt women, that gives bullies and bigots and others who hate and fear trans people more cover, more leeway, and more ammunition, to get away with more hatred, fearmongering and bullying. It keeps trans kids up at night worried that they will be targeted next, that it will get worse for them the more they follow their natural inclinations. It deepens their struggle to be true to themselves. It makes just going to school every day an effort and a triumph on par with winning a sports trophy, but nobody even sees it at all.

Trans people will attempt more suicide and suffer more assaults because this legislation, and millions of other signals from a prejudiced society, send the message that they are not accepted and have no place in the ordinary world we take for granted. We need to be working to send the opposite message. It takes all kinds.

[Della]

So now people are going to kill themselves if they don’t compete on the women’s Olympic swim team? We’re not talking about anyone being assaulted… that’s another non-sequitur mean to make people emotionally react and forget that the conversation is about fairness In Sports

Talk about creating a moral panic….

Let me connect the dots for you.

People abuse power by doing whatever they can get away with. Trans people don't attempt suicide because they can't get on the women's Olympic swim team. They do it because they are hated, feared, bullied, rejected and psychologically tortured over their very identity, by others who are abusing power.

When the governor of the state affirms that trans athletes are trying to hurt women, that gives bullies and bigots and others who hate and fear trans people more cover, more leeway, and more ammunition, to get away with more hatred, fearmongering and bullying. It keeps trans kids up at night worried that they will be targeted next, that it will get worse for them the more they follow their natural inclinations. It deepens their struggle to be true to themselves. It makes just going to school every day an effort and a triumph on par with winning a sports trophy, but nobody even sees it at all.

Trans people will attempt more suicide and suffer more assaults because this legislation, and millions of other signals from a prejudiced society, send the message that they are not accepted and have no place in the ordinary world we take for granted. We need to be working to send the opposite message. It takes all kinds.

[WellPreserved]

So now people are going to kill themselves if they don’t compete on the women’s Olympic swim team? We’re not talking about anyone being assaulted… that’s another non-sequitur mean to make people emotionally react and forget that the conversation is about fairness In Sports


Talk about creating a moral panic….

Now you are being disingenuous. You have posted frequently about transgender women in sport, penis's in the locker room, how drag queens and books with sexual themes no matter how benign are scaring "our children". Sally has ALWAYS responded with a lot of thought with a focus on fairness as this is a topic that she cares about enough to have designed an appropriate, accessible bathroom, for goodness sake. Her approach has always been one of fairness and equity.

You are WELL aware of the dangers of exclusion to the LGBTQ community, especially LGBTQ youth, as your daughter, as a member of that community, was bullied out of high school. Don't try to minimize that danger in order to try to score points.

You two are the only ones trying to conflate kids assaulting you with sports teams being un-inclusive to everyone…


MOST kids in the high school don’t make it onto the team… whatever gender they are…a lot of teams have 25 open spots and 1500 kids that go to the school. Competing at a high level isn’t for everyone.

It's all part and parcel. Denying transgender women the ability to participate in athletics at the primary school, university, or professional level is equal to denying transgender women the ability to use the bathroom of the S*x they identify. It's "othering" and this "othering" leads to bullying, anxiety, increased risk of suicide, and other harms.

Take the article posted in this forum about 16/17 year old basketball player Tate Dageset. The "lovely" Riley Gaines proudly outed her as transgender so her place at Washington State was rescinded. In addition, she has had numerous articles about her in conservative news articles mis-gendering her, dead naming her and multiple threats against not just her but her family. Yeah Riley?

It just feels that in these conversations, the feelings of actual transgender women and girls who are the ones most affected are discarded because obviously cis-gender women's feelings are the only ones that count. I will never, ever agree with that and if we look back on history, I'm pretty confident that I'm on the right side.

Here is a picture of Tate Drageset. She's one of the one's that we cis-gender women need "protection" from. I have more faith in women that that. We can come up with a fair, inclusive way to ensure that all women have a place in athletics, in the arts, in every facet of life where we hold spaces. I just don't buy for a second that 1% of the population and 0.025% of the athletic community are a threat. I also don't buy that we need to discriminate one segment of women for others to succeed.