UCLA anti-Israel protesters ask supporters for vegan and gluten-free food, zip ties, shields and EpiPens

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Aletheia
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:19 am
Moreover, over time, multiple strains of Zionism have emerged, including political Zionism, religious Zionism, and cultural Zionism.
  • Political: When people refer to “Zionism” today, this is often what they mean. Founded by 19th Century thinker Theodore Herzl, it sees the “Jewish problem” as having a solution in a “Jewish state.” As nationalism rose in Europe, many, including Herzl, saw Jews as outsiders to the nation, unable or unwilling to assimilate or be fully accepted as members of the nation-state. According to Herzl, this “problem” should be solved by a community of nations by establishing a Jewish state in Palestine.
  • Religious: Many, but not all, forms of Zionism have their roots in theological interpretations. It is important to note that this form of Zionism is not exclusive to Jewish religious traditions. For example, some evangelical Christian denominations believe that in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ, Jews must “gather” in Israel as part of Biblical prophecy.
  • Cultural: Most often attributed to Herzl’s contemporary, Ahad Ha’am (Asher Ginsberg), this form of Zionism called for a spiritual and cultural center for Jewish people in Palestine, but not for a “Jewish state” in the same way Herzl did. Instead, this form of Zionism calls for Jews to share a national language and culture.
The political ideology of Zionism, regardless of which strain, has resulted in the establishment of a Jewish nation-state in the land of historic Palestine. In 1948, 750,000 Palestinians were expelled as part of that process, their homes and property confiscated. Despite recognition of their rights by the United Nations, their rights to return and be compensated have long been denied by the US and Israel. In 1967, Israel occupied what is now known as the Occupied Palestinian Territories, putting millions of people under military rule. Longstanding systemic inequalities privilege Jews over Palestinians inside Israel and in the Occupied Territories.
See what I mean? Perfect example. Spreading false blood libels
Which part of that repeats the blood libel? Could you highlight the sentence or paragraph for me, please?

Because, as far as I'm aware, the "blood libel" refers to the specific untrue accusation that Jews murder Christians in order to use their blood in the performance of religious rituals.
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highlandmum
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:29 am No. THE truth is the correct one. There is such a thing as historical facts, you know?
And you twist them, corrupt them and deny them all because you don’t believe Jews should have a country in their ancestral homeland. 🤷🏼‍♀️
Keep your lies. Obviously they make you feel righteous for supporting terrorists.
Della wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:23 am
Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:19 am See what I mean? Perfect example. Spreading false blood libels, rewriting history with a narrative that portrays Jews as violent and imperialistic and therefore suggesting Israel isn’t a legitimate country. That it was founded on the suffering of “Palestinians”, which couldn’t be farther for the truth.
And then pretend it’s not antisemitism, it’s “antizionism” which really is the modern day antisemitism.
Zionism just means the right of Jewish people to self determination and governance in their indigenous homeland-Israel, a.k.a Judea. It’s a movement of decolonization, which would be applauded if it was any other marginalized and persecuted group, but if it’s Jews… it’s evil. Saying that one isn’t an antisemite, just an antizionist is like someone saying they’re not anti American, they’re just against America existing.

Only your truth is the correct one, yes?
I will say what you tell us on this site seems to be slightly bias toward your addenda. I have asked my friend who is Jewish about the history and received what I would call a very non-bias, however extremely detailed, education of the history. I tend to lean towards what she is saying as she is a history teacher with a specialization in the middle east, relations and religions. The Zoinist movement was not all roses and sunshine as you are making it out to be according to her, especially round 1939. You also need to remember that both religions deem this area to be historically significant you seem to be only focused on the once aspect of this.
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There you go. No Arabs were “expelled”, no property was stolen. After Jews settled in their land, most Arabs left knowing that the other Arab nations were invading the newly formed Jewish state and they were promised they would annihilate the Jewish presence. Well, didn’t quite work that way, huh? Israel defended herself from that invasion and declared her Independence. Do you really expect they would welcome those Arabs who wanted her destruction back?
Which being us to the second one. At the time about 150,00 Arabs chose to remain. They kept their homes, their property and when Israel declared her independence, became the first Arab citizens of Israel. They’re now about 2 million Arab citizens in Israel, 20% of the population. They have equal rights, they serve in the Supreme Court, the government and the IDF. Look up George Karra, an Arab Supreme Court judge that sentenced a Jewish Israeli president to jail.
As for “occupation” and “apartheid” of Palestinians… Israel acquired those territories fair and square in 1967. Again, starting a war and then losing it doesn’t make anyone a victim. Throughout history geography has been forged through war. Problem was, these areas has refugees from Jordan who Jordan didn’t want back. Jordan eventually agreed to receive these now known as “palestinian”, a term coined by Yasser Arafat in an attempt to make them a unique group. They’re just Jordanian refugees. Anyway, Jordan welcomed them, the PLO started a civil war to try to overthrow King Hussein (look up Black September) and so Jordan expelled them again and made them Israel’s problem. They began with constant terrorist attacked against Israelis, hence the military “occupation”. But there is no occupation now. The West Bank territories are under the control of the PA, not of Israel. The IDF doesn’t even go in unless it’s planned operation based on intelligence of a terrorist cell planning an attack or committing one. The proof is the Ramallah Lynching in 2000. 2 Israeli young men accidentally entered Ramallah and were arrested- you see, Jews aren’t allowed in Palestinian territories, talk about apartheid- and when the people heard about it, they stormed the prison, brutally lynched these young men and threw their bodies from the window to the cheering crowd who further mutilated them, eventually burning one of them. The picture of an ecstatic lyncher in the window proudly showing his bloody hands became famous. Hence the scandal at the Oscars and the “red hand pins”.
So Israel isn’t responsible for human rights and equality neither on the WB or Gaza. They’re not Israeli citizens, they have their own rulers. So accusing Israel of unequal treatment is a lie. They have no reason to give them equal rights to their citizens.
So again, twisting facts and history to vilify and demonize Israel, palestinian Jews and early Jewish immigrants.
Aletheia wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:06 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:19 am
Moreover, over time, multiple strains of Zionism have emerged, including political Zionism, religious Zionism, and cultural Zionism.
  • Political: When people refer to “Zionism” today, this is often what they mean. Founded by 19th Century thinker Theodore Herzl, it sees the “Jewish problem” as having a solution in a “Jewish state.” As nationalism rose in Europe, many, including Herzl, saw Jews as outsiders to the nation, unable or unwilling to assimilate or be fully accepted as members of the nation-state. According to Herzl, this “problem” should be solved by a community of nations by establishing a Jewish state in Palestine.
  • Religious: Many, but not all, forms of Zionism have their roots in theological interpretations. It is important to note that this form of Zionism is not exclusive to Jewish religious traditions. For example, some evangelical Christian denominations believe that in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ, Jews must “gather” in Israel as part of Biblical prophecy.
  • Cultural: Most often attributed to Herzl’s contemporary, Ahad Ha’am (Asher Ginsberg), this form of Zionism called for a spiritual and cultural center for Jewish people in Palestine, but not for a “Jewish state” in the same way Herzl did. Instead, this form of Zionism calls for Jews to share a national language and culture.
The political ideology of Zionism, regardless of which strain, has resulted in the establishment of a Jewish nation-state in the land of historic Palestine. In 1948, 750,000 Palestinians were expelled as part of that process, their homes and property confiscated. Despite recognition of their rights by the United Nations, their rights to return and be compensated have long been denied by the US and Israel. In 1967, Israel occupied what is now known as the Occupied Palestinian Territories, putting millions of people under military rule. Longstanding systemic inequalities privilege Jews over Palestinians inside Israel and in the Occupied Territories.
See what I mean? Perfect example. Spreading false blood libels
Which part of that repeats the blood libel? Could you highlight the sentence or paragraph for me, please?

Because, as far as I'm aware, the "blood libel" refers to the specific untrue accusation that Jews murder Christians in order to use their blood in the performance of religious rituals.
❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
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Funny how you define “unbiased” as “I agree with it” and “biased” as “I don’t agree with it.”
Believe what you will. I’m really not interested in debating with lost causes that have happily embraced the anti Israel narrative. Ultimately, Israel will do what she needs to do to protect her citizens- Jewish, Christian and Muslim- and Jews around the world and whatever you choose to believe won’t make a difference. And eventually, the truth will prevail. Thanks to the increase in tropes and blood libels, most Jews who are knowledgeable about the actual history and reality are also becoming more vocal.
And BTW, if you believe Jews have a right to self determination and governance in their ancestral homeland, you believe that Israel has a right to exist, then let me be the first to welcome you as a Zionist. Because that’s all it is.
highlandmum wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:13 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:29 am No. THE truth is the correct one. There is such a thing as historical facts, you know?
And you twist them, corrupt them and deny them all because you don’t believe Jews should have a country in their ancestral homeland. 🤷🏼‍♀️
Keep your lies. Obviously they make you feel righteous for supporting terrorists.
Della wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:23 am

Only your truth is the correct one, yes?
I will say what you tell us on this site seems to be slightly bias toward your addenda. I have asked my friend who is Jewish about the history and received what I would call a very non-bias, however extremely detailed, education of the history. I tend to lean towards what she is saying as she is a history teacher with a specialization in the middle east, relations and religions. The Zoinist movement was not all roses and sunshine as you are making it out to be according to her, especially round 1939. You also need to remember that both religions deem this area to be historically significant you seem to be only focused on the once aspect of this.
❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 3:12 pm Funny how you define “unbiased” as “I agree with it” and “biased” as “I don’t agree with it.”
Believe what you will. I’m really not interested in debating with lost causes that have happily embraced the anti Israel narrative. Ultimately, Israel will do what she needs to do to protect her citizens- Jewish, Christian and Muslim- and Jews around the world and whatever you choose to believe won’t make a difference. And eventually, the truth will prevail. Thanks to the increase in tropes and blood libels, most Jews who are knowledgeable about the actual history and reality are also becoming more vocal.
And BTW, if you believe Jews have a right to self determination and governance in their ancestral homeland, you believe that Israel has a right to exist, then let me be the first to welcome you as a Zionist. Because that’s all it is.
highlandmum wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:13 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:29 am No. THE truth is the correct one. There is such a thing as historical facts, you know?
And you twist them, corrupt them and deny them all because you don’t believe Jews should have a country in their ancestral homeland. 🤷🏼‍♀️
Keep your lies. Obviously they make you feel righteous for supporting terrorists.

I will say what you tell us on this site seems to be slightly bias toward your addenda. I have asked my friend who is Jewish about the history and received what I would call a very non-bias, however extremely detailed, education of the history. I tend to lean towards what she is saying as she is a history teacher with a specialization in the middle east, relations and religions. The Zoinist movement was not all roses and sunshine as you are making it out to be according to her, especially round 1939. You also need to remember that both religions deem this area to be historically significant you seem to be only focused on the once aspect of this.
How is my statement anti-Israel?

Do you agree with this - She has said to me that Zionism is not a simple thing - it is controversial and a complicated idea that is 150 years old and that is only getting more contentious with every passing moment.

I have two groups to mention to you and please tell me what your opinion on them are - Stern Gang and Irgun Zvai Leumi.

I am not anti-Israel nor am I anti-Palestine. I do believe that both should be independent entities, and have self government. I do however hope for a more progressive and inclusive government for Palestine (Hamas must be ousted). But I honestly do not think this war is doing any good for either country. Israel it unfortunately tarnishing its reputation within the eyes of the public, as many of the pubic see this as a one sided war with Palestine as a defenseless entity (which I do not believe in any way). I do not think Israel can win this as if they defeat Hamas many will say they bullied the smaller and weaker state, but if they agree to a cease fire then Hamas may think they have the upper hand and attack again. It is not a situation any country should be in.
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 3:05 pm
Aletheia wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:06 pm Which part of that repeats the blood libel? Could you highlight the sentence or paragraph for me, please?

Because, as far as I'm aware, the "blood libel" refers to the specific untrue accusation that Jews murder Christians in order to use their blood in the performance of religious rituals.
The political ideology of Zionism, regardless of which strain, has resulted in the establishment of a Jewish nation-state in the land of historic Palestine. In 1948, 750,000 Palestinians were expelled as part of that process, their homes and property confiscated. Despite recognition of their rights by the United Nations, their rights to return and be compensated have long been denied by the US and Israel. In 1967, Israel occupied what is now known as the Occupied Palestinian Territories, putting millions of people under military rule. Longstanding systemic inequalities privilege Jews over Palestinians inside Israel and in the Occupied Territories.
There you go.
Thank you.

I agree that, if the highlighted sentences are false, then they would amount to libel.

But what makes them blood libel?
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They’re portraying Jews as engaging in violence against the Arab population to purposely take away their homes. It stems from older blood libels like Jews seeing non Jews as inferior and treating them like animals when it isn’t true. It’s inventing an “Jewish supremacy” that doesn’t exist. And it also portray the government of Israel as a violent apartheid state oppressing and mistreating palestinians just for this same reason. From this initial accusation comes every other accusation of “atrocities” that have been thrown at Israel. Is an Israel above mistakes? Of course not. But no country is. 1% of the population of Gaza has been killed- that includes combatants, civilians killed by Hamas and those dying of unrelated causes- and yet Israel is accused of genocide. Experts in urban warfare, like John Spencer, say that Israel goes above and beyond to protect civilians, has one of the best combatants to civilians ratio, and they still throw accusations of “war crimes” over every death. The real genocide, like the one committed on October 7th, like the one Hamas and their supporters chant from with “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, they ignore, deny or distort. Same with the real war crimes like using civilian buildings like hospitals and schools as terrorist bases and using civilians- especially women, children and the elderly- as human shields.

Take the recent accidental shooting of a WCK truck. An investigation which resulted in the responsible soldiers being dismissed showed that it was an honest mistakes. And yet, the world is still condemning Israel and claiming it was intentional when Israel had no motive to attack a truck delivering food. Israel still took responsibility and acknowledged their mistake and offered apologies while punishing the responsible parties.
On the other hand the U.S mistakenly attacks a target killing 10 civilians, including 7 children, they just claim it was a mistake, offer mild apologies and the world moves on. Those responsible weren’t punished. No one demanded an additional investigation to the one conducted by America, no one suggested it was intentional. So why is the world still obsessed with claiming Israel did it on purpose?
Aletheia wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 4:17 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 3:05 pm
Aletheia wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:06 pm Which part of that repeats the blood libel? Could you highlight the sentence or paragraph for me, please?

Because, as far as I'm aware, the "blood libel" refers to the specific untrue accusation that Jews murder Christians in order to use their blood in the performance of religious rituals.
The political ideology of Zionism, regardless of which strain, has resulted in the establishment of a Jewish nation-state in the land of historic Palestine. In 1948, 750,000 Palestinians were expelled as part of that process, their homes and property confiscated. Despite recognition of their rights by the United Nations, their rights to return and be compensated have long been denied by the US and Israel. In 1967, Israel occupied what is now known as the Occupied Palestinian Territories, putting millions of people under military rule. Longstanding systemic inequalities privilege Jews over Palestinians inside Israel and in the Occupied Territories.
There you go.
Thank you.

I agree that, if the highlighted sentences are false, then they would amount to libel.

But what makes them blood libel?
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Forgot. May I suggest a wonderful book for you that will put the history of the conflict in perspective?
“Son of Hamas” by Mosab Hassan Youssef. Also his documentary “The Green Prince”, I found it on Tubi, a free streaming service. He grew up as the son of one of the founders of Hamas and turned Israeli informant after spending time in an Israeli prison and comparing how Hamas treated people and how Israelis treated people. He now is under asylum in the U.S and has converted to Christianity..
He speaks the truth, shows the mistakes of both sides, because Israel does make mistakes, every country does, every leader does. His description of his capture doesn’t show the IDF soldiers in a good light. But their wrongful actions aren’t specific to Israel, they happen all over the world. The problem is when people take those mistakes, those isolated wrongful actions to spread the idea that Israel is evil and commits “atrocities” willfully and happily and why, according to them? Because of “Jewish supremacy”.
Look at what Israel does, her contributions with the world that they happily share. The medical and technological advances, the technology in environmental protection. It’s a country that was to make a positive contribution. But unfortunately, it’s also a country surrounded by regimes that want her destroyed. So sometimes it has to get tough to defend herself. That’s not an excuse to vilify and demonize her over mistakes or necessary actions for protection. Certainly no reason to throw a 🖕🏼🇮🇱 as someone did here… it’s also not an excuse to question it’s right to exist and to distort history to delegitimize that right. If America was constantly infiltrated by Mexican narcos who started attacking innocent civilians, wouldn’t you want America to get tough on your border security? To have tighter measures to control who goes in? And wouldn’t you think that sometimes those measures can result in mistreatment, mistakenly or willfully and that doesn’t mean that America is an evil state seeking to kill all Mexicans?
Aletheia wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 4:17 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 3:05 pm
Aletheia wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:06 pm Which part of that repeats the blood libel? Could you highlight the sentence or paragraph for me, please?

Because, as far as I'm aware, the "blood libel" refers to the specific untrue accusation that Jews murder Christians in order to use their blood in the performance of religious rituals.
The political ideology of Zionism, regardless of which strain, has resulted in the establishment of a Jewish nation-state in the land of historic Palestine. In 1948, 750,000 Palestinians were expelled as part of that process, their homes and property confiscated. Despite recognition of their rights by the United Nations, their rights to return and be compensated have long been denied by the US and Israel. In 1967, Israel occupied what is now known as the Occupied Palestinian Territories, putting millions of people under military rule. Longstanding systemic inequalities privilege Jews over Palestinians inside Israel and in the Occupied Territories.
There you go.
Thank you.

I agree that, if the highlighted sentences are false, then they would amount to libel.

But what makes them blood libel?
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 7:11 pm They’re portraying Jews as engaging in violence against the Arab population to purposely take away their homes
I think it is a stretch to equate that to the blood libel.

People can use criminal means to expand the area controlled by their tribe out of greed (or fear). It doesn't have to be out of a belief the people they steal from are inferior.
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Unread post

If you prefer the term “antisemitic trope”, I’m fine with that. We can use that.
Aletheia wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 7:36 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 7:11 pm They’re portraying Jews as engaging in violence against the Arab population to purposely take away their homes
I think it is a stretch to equate that to the blood libel.

People can use criminal means to expand the area controlled by their tribe out of greed (or fear). It doesn't have to be out of a belief the people they steal from are inferior.
❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
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