Will Iran attack?

[Della]

I’m not right wing, Della…



If you are asking for it to stop, you have to stop.

That's highly debatable

I don't give one red cent if anything stops. I'm not the snowflake slinging accusations at others.

But, you are.
I know that both of you have extremely personal reasons for having your own views on this. I know this one is different than the random news stories we go over, I promise, I will not attempt to be rude to you at all in this post.

I am not blaming you for anything, but words matter here and in order to talk peacefully we all have to remain peaceful.

You are actually saying this is

"You sound exactly the same as right wing Israeli news. It's amazing how you all naively believe your war hawks."

is slinging an accusation?

Yes. Words matter. Especially when you're being accused of being "antisemitic woke Israel haters with your tropes and blood libels."

Yes. Words matter to peaceful conversations.

[Slimshandy]

That's highly debatable

I don't give one red cent if anything stops. I'm not the snowflake slinging accusations at others.

But, you are.
I know that both of you have extremely personal reasons for having your own views on this. I know this one is different than the random news stories we go over, I promise, I will not attempt to be rude to you at all in this post.

I am not blaming you for anything, but words matter here and in order to talk peacefully we all have to remain peaceful.

You are actually saying this is

"You sound exactly the same as right wing Israeli news. It's amazing how you all naively believe your war hawks."

is slinging an accusation?

Yes. Words matter. Especially when you're being accused of being "antisemitic woke Israel haters with your tropes and blood libels."

Yes. Words matter to peaceful conversations.

It’s the beginning of personalization.
To be honest, and I don’t see this as anything to be able to judge where either one of you are coming from- but I think you have a hatred for Israel and I think she has a hatred for Palestine. I definitely think that is from the history of violence the area has seen between the two countries, but maybe I’m extending the branch of possibility that a non-hateful conversation can happen between you two.

Maybe I’m wrong, and if I am, I promise, there’s no judgment there either… but I think there’s a possibility to try.

[Momto2boys973]

I don’t hate Palestine. Or rather the concept of it because there has never been an independent state called “palestine”.In fact, I hope for a viable 2 state solution. I’m a realist and I understand that at this point it’s not a possibility, but man, do I pray it may come to be. Palestinians have rejected at least 5 offers to create their own country and when Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005, well… we saw what they did to it. It’s because I do care about the innocent people in Gaza, even if they’re few that I support 100% eliminating their oppressors- Hamas- and creating a society free from the radical Jihadist ideology they’ve been brainwashed with for the last decades.
That doesn’t mean I’m going to take the anti Israel blood libels and tropes as anything less than antisemitism. If there’s something this conflict finally made very clear is that antizionism is antisemitism. Israel may be strong and powerful, successful and productive and palestine isn’t. But that’s not Israel’s fault and it definitely doesn't mean that Israel is imperialistic, genocidial, ambitious for power or any of the blood libels her haters want to spew because they want to delegitimize her existence. Israel wasn’t formed by “stealing” land, or by Jews massacring Arabs or any of the lies these people love to spew. Israel isn’t an apartheid state, isn’t looking for a genocide and at this point isn’t illegally occupying any region.
Being supportive of one side doesn’t mean being against the other. But being against one does make a person be supportive of the other to the extent of perpetuating the lies and libels that have been invented to discredit and demonize the one while victimizing the other.

But, you are.
I know that both of you have extremely personal reasons for having your own views on this. I know this one is different than the random news stories we go over, I promise, I will not attempt to be rude to you at all in this post.

I am not blaming you for anything, but words matter here and in order to talk peacefully we all have to remain peaceful.

You are actually saying this is

"You sound exactly the same as right wing Israeli news. It's amazing how you all naively believe your war hawks."

is slinging an accusation?

Yes. Words matter. Especially when you're being accused of being "antisemitic woke Israel haters with your tropes and blood libels."

Yes. Words matter to peaceful conversations.

It’s the beginning of personalization.
To be honest, and I don’t see this as anything to be able to judge where either one of you are coming from- but I think you have a hatred for Israel and I think she has a hatred for Palestine. I definitely think that is from the history of violence the area has seen between the two countries, but maybe I’m extending the branch of possibility that a non-hateful conversation can happen between you two.

Maybe I’m wrong, and if I am, I promise, there’s no judgment there either… but I think there’s a possibility to try.

[Momto2boys973]

I do want to add that I’m not right wing either, as she accused me. I was perfectly happy with the coalition of Neftali Bennett (moderate right wing) and Yair Lapid (moderate left wing). I don’t give my allegiance to parties, or philosophies.
I appreciate your peacemaking attempts, but I’m afraid it’s fruitless. That’s why I’ve had this poster on ignore since before October 7th. And without being able to see the things she’s been spewing lately, I’m willing to bet is a rampage of vilifying Israel as belligerent, bent on domination, genocide and imperialism- even though I dare her to find Israel in a World Map without a magnifying glass…- and together with another poster I’m sure they’ve been egging each other on to post how evil Israel is and how they have this master plan to destroy palestinians. All lies, of course.
I decided that I can’t engage in civil conversation with someone moved by prejudices and hate. It’s pointless, it’s draining and frankly I don’t have the time or interest to do it. Since October 7th I’ve heard every single anti Israel lie and narrative she can throw at me, nothing new. So I put both of them on my ignore list. I’m suggesting that she do the same and ignore me instead of quoting me over and over again. Let’s ignore each other and keep the peace around here.

But, you are.
I know that both of you have extremely personal reasons for having your own views on this. I know this one is different than the random news stories we go over, I promise, I will not attempt to be rude to you at all in this post.

I am not blaming you for anything, but words matter here and in order to talk peacefully we all have to remain peaceful.

You are actually saying this is

"You sound exactly the same as right wing Israeli news. It's amazing how you all naively believe your war hawks."

is slinging an accusation?

Yes. Words matter. Especially when you're being accused of being "antisemitic woke Israel haters with your tropes and blood libels."

Yes. Words matter to peaceful conversations.

It’s the beginning of personalization.
To be honest, and I don’t see this as anything to be able to judge where either one of you are coming from- but I think you have a hatred for Israel and I think she has a hatred for Palestine. I definitely think that is from the history of violence the area has seen between the two countries, but maybe I’m extending the branch of possibility that a non-hateful conversation can happen between you two.

Maybe I’m wrong, and if I am, I promise, there’s no judgment there either… but I think there’s a possibility to try.

[Della]

Why did you start this thread, knowing that some who may disagree with you and how you perceive everything that's occuring in the Middle East might respond?

Not everyone in this group are "right wing" and "left wing", Della. So no, not everyone who might have a different opinion are coming from those extremes.

And it's clear that given the circumstances of what has occurred in that region, it makes sense that emotions about it might be high for more than just yourself.

Give people a break. Please.

Are you asking for political correctness?

It's a really small group with a lot of familiar faces. Not hard to ascertain the political differences.

Again, it sounds like you're asking for me to be "woke"?

No, I'm not suggesting you be PC or approach things from a "woke" perspective.

I'm simply asking why you began this thread if, as you say, you know where (essentially) everyone is politically?

What replies were you wanting? Did you only want arguments then?

And finally, what do you feel MY political leanings are?

Sure looked like that's what you're asking.

I posted a question for discussion. I read A LOT of Israeli news, from all sides. It's uncanny how the phrases seem to almost repeat, lol. I said so and I'm accused of some awful things that are simply not true. Great "arguments" y'all got going there.

[Della]

[AZOldGal66]

Are you asking for political correctness?

It's a really small group with a lot of familiar faces. Not hard to ascertain the political differences.

Again, it sounds like you're asking for me to be "woke"?

No, I'm not suggesting you be PC or approach things from a "woke" perspective.

I'm simply asking why you began this thread if, as you say, you know where (essentially) everyone is politically?

What replies were you wanting? Did you only want arguments then?

And finally, what do you feel MY political leanings are?

Sure looked like that's what you're asking.

I posted a question for discussion. I read A LOT of Israeli news, from all sides. It's uncanny how the phrases seem to almost repeat, lol. I said so and I'm accused of some awful things that are simply not true. Great "arguments" y'all got going there.

There's a lot of decades old tropes and rhetoric I've found online toward both the Israeli's and the Palestinians and the term "antisemitic" gets thrown in, at times, when it shouldn't IMO.

Myself, I enjoy diversity of opinions and especially when the feedback is engaging and designed in a "keep an open mind" way.

Thanks for your reply, Della.

[WellPreserved]

Arab States That Stood Up to Iran Won't Be on Board to Assist an Israeli Counterstrike

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-new ... 43e77c4203

[Della]

Remember this?

"The United States, as a member of the United Nations, has ratified the Charter of the United Nations and, therefore, is bound by its provisions. Agnès Callamard, United Nations Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, and Director of Columbia University's Global Freedom of Expression project, researched the alleged legal basis for the killing of Suleimani advanced by the United States government and stated that the Suleimani's killing could have been justified under international law only if it had been a response to an "imminent threat." However, she said that the United States had provided no evidence to support that contention. "Absent an actual imminent threat to life, the course of action taken by the U.S. was unlawful," Ms. Callamard wrote in a report that she presented in July 2020 to the U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva.[173] The Trump administration's February 2020 memorandum to Congress was "remarkably vague and inconsequential as far as a possible imminent threat is concerned," Ms. Callamard wrote in the report. "Even at the most basic level, the U.S. did not demonstrate that striking Suleimani was 'necessary.'"[173]

Callamard also concluded that the killing sets an alarming precedent—it was the first targeted drone killing of a senior foreign government official on the territory of a third country. The world now faced "the very real prospect that states may opt to 'strategically' eliminate high-ranking military officials outside the context of a 'known' war, and seek to justify the killing on the grounds of the target's classification as a 'terrorist' who posed a potential future threat," Callamard said in her report. Also, she noted that scores of countries and many non-state actors now have operational drones, and that drones kill many non-combatants for every person targeted.[173]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qasem_Soleimani