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Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:40 am
by WellPreserved
SouthernIslander wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:08 am
WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:45 am
SouthernIslander wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:23 am
I think the problem is, it is too easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces. As predatory as men are, I can't say this isn't a valid concern.
That doesn't mean ban all trans women from our spaces, but there needs to be a compromise. IMHO.
Men have been coming into women's spaces to cause harm well before the transgender bathroom issue. IMO, until individual bathrooms and changing stalls are standard, the unisex or family individual bathroom that most establishments including gyms provide is a good compromise.
Transgender women are not the issue, predatory men are.
It just feels with these threads that we're beating a dead horse. Half the women in this group believe that transgender women are women and half don't and I just feel that these threads aren't going to change minds.
There are a lot of women in my life that I love deeply and want to see safe and protected and respected. Some of these women were born with male genitalia and obviously I want them included and respected when talking about how to keep women safe.
And is it so easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces? This guy was arrested, as he should have been. Honestly, if a naked woman came up to my daughter in the locker room and asked to shower with her and rub lotion on her, arrest would be going easy on her, lol.
Honestly, I wish we'd go back to bathroom and locker room attendants like what was standard when I was growing up!
Yes, he was arrested…after the damage to the women in that locker room was already done. So preventative action is also important because the law isn't going to pay for a rape victim’s therapy bill if the offense triggers them.
I have shared spaces with gay men and transwomen my whole life and always will, but it should not be that easy for a straight man to prey on and traumatize women in spaces that should be safe.
So i understand what you're saying, but I see both sides and the need to compromise.
That's why I'm glad that my state allows one to change their gender on their birth certificate or license if they meet certain criteria. Checking id when joining a gym would be the easiest way to determine one's gender and which locker room they were permitted to use. In the story, the guy booked online as a male. That should have automatically prevented him from entering the women's locker room.
I know that this wouldn't work in states that don't allow someone to change their gender on their ID.
I think it would be rare for a predatory male to go through the legal process of changing one's id just to enter a women's space. We are talking about 1% of the population. I think there is a way to both protect women from predatory men and protect transgender women we just need the will.
Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:54 am
by Slimshandy
Traci_Momof2 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:27 am
So, what I see is that one incident of a FULLY CLOTHED trans woman in a locker room went viral because another busy-body couldn't mind her own business. So now a perverted man decided he wanted to see how far he could go being FULLY NAKED in a women's locker room.
I think PF is handling these things appropriately. They looked at each individual situation, made a judgement call, and took appropriate actions.
And if the busy-body hadn't made an issue out of the FULLY CLOTHED trans woman, then maybe Miller would not have gotten his idea to walk around that locker room naked. So if you want to blame someone for putting women at danger, look at blaming the busy-body in Alaska who couldn't mind her own business.
Of course… when men act like pigs, it’s inevitably a woman’s fault…
Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:16 pm
by Traci_Momof2
SouthernIslander wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:08 am
WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:45 am
SouthernIslander wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:23 am
I think the problem is, it is too easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces. As predatory as men are, I can't say this isn't a valid concern.
That doesn't mean ban all trans women from our spaces, but there needs to be a compromise. IMHO.
Men have been coming into women's spaces to cause harm well before the transgender bathroom issue. IMO, until individual bathrooms and changing stalls are standard, the unisex or family individual bathroom that most establishments including gyms provide is a good compromise.
Transgender women are not the issue, predatory men are.
It just feels with these threads that we're beating a dead horse. Half the women in this group believe that transgender women are women and half don't and I just feel that these threads aren't going to change minds.
There are a lot of women in my life that I love deeply and want to see safe and protected and respected. Some of these women were born with male genitalia and obviously I want them included and respected when talking about how to keep women safe.
And is it so easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces? This guy was arrested, as he should have been. Honestly, if a naked woman came up to my daughter in the locker room and asked to shower with her and rub lotion on her, arrest would be going easy on her, lol.
Honestly, I wish we'd go back to bathroom and locker room attendants like what was standard when I was growing up!
Yes, he was arrested…after the damage to the women in that locker room was already done. So preventative action is also important because the law isn't going to pay for a rape victim’s therapy bill if the offense triggers them.
I have shared spaces with gay men and transwomen my whole life and always will, but it should not be that easy for a straight man to prey on and traumatize women in spaces that should be safe.
So i understand what you're saying, but I see both sides and the need to compromise.
I feel like PF is doing what they can within their purview to keep their spaces safe for all members. They have policy and so far it seems they are upholding their policy. This Miller dude broke policy and he has been arrested for it. What more can we ask for? No place is 100% safe and it's unrealistic to ask any business to try to absolutely guarantee our safety. And it has nothing to do with trans people. Perverts are going to try to do things in locker rooms no matter what. I'm pretty sure there's been many jokes about it in tv and movies long before trans was ever this big deal. And PF can't guarantee that no one will try something in a locker room any more than they can guarantee that no lunatic will bust in the front door and shoot down everyone on the treadmills. There just aren't those guarantees in life. As long as we are all human beings, we will continue to be violent to each other. Nothing will change that.
So I have to wonder, when people talk about these "safe spaces" and especially "safe spaces for women", what does that REALLY mean? Since there are no guarantees in life, what does it really mean and what are we really, realistically, striving for in these spaces?
Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:26 pm
by Della
SouthernIslander wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:23 am
WellPreserved wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:47 pm
I'm confused. I assumed the argument in the last thread was that transgender women who still had male genitalia would be able to walk around with their genitalia exposed - face height! So someone walks around with genitalia exposed and they are arrested and this is seen as a bad thing?
I think the problem is, it is too easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces. As predatory as men are, I can't say this isn't a valid concern.
That doesn't mean ban all trans women from our spaces, but there needs to be a compromise. IMHO.
As indicated by this perps arrest, I disagree that it's any more easy now than it was fifty years ago.
Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:34 pm
by Della
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:59 am
Della wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:27 am
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:11 am
He identified himself as female.
That’s why it’s controversial.
Has he been identified as a trans individual?
Who is supposed to make that call?
The person identifying Themselves, or the businesses that believe them or not?
The individual. Has this obvious Male individual ever identified as trans?
Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:37 pm
by Slimshandy
Della wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:34 pm
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:59 am
Della wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:27 am
Has he been identified as a trans individual?
Who is supposed to make that call?
The person identifying Themselves, or the businesses that believe them or not?
The individual. Has this obvious Male individual ever identified as trans?
Yes…
He’s obviously a man to us, yet he identified themselves as a woman.
Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:43 pm
by Della
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:37 pm
Della wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:34 pm
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:59 am
Who is supposed to make that call?
The person identifying Themselves, or the businesses that believe them or not?
The individual. Has this obvious Male individual ever identified as trans?
Yes…
He’s obviously a man to us, yet he identified themselves as a woman.
And based on the evidence, he was arrested.
Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:43 pm
by Slimshandy
Della wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:43 pm
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:37 pm
Della wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:34 pm
The individual. Has this obvious Male individual ever identified as trans?
Yes…
He’s obviously a man to us, yet he identified themselves as a woman.
And based on the evidence, he was arrested.
Yes… after the damage was done, he was arrested.
Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:59 pm
by MonarchMom
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:51 pm
It’s either blatantly obvious that this was a man trying to take advantage of Planet Fitness’s locker room policy…
Or people would rather put women in a crazy uncomfortable position than dare offend a man…
Either way, women are in danger because of
these people and their agenda…
If by "these people" you mean those who have a goal and take actions to assault women, then yes. If by "these people" you mean those in general who identify as transgender, then no.
An adult woman could have done exactly the same actions and would face the same consequences. An adult man in the men's locker room could have done exactly the same actions and would face the same consequences. It is about actions taken - not identity.
Re: Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:01 pm
by MonarchMom
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:43 pm
Della wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:43 pm
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:37 pm
Yes…
He’s obviously a man to us, yet he identified themselves as a woman.
And based on the evidence, he was arrested.
Yes… after the damage was done, he was arrested.
That is how law enforcement works. Someone commits a crime, then they are arrested.