Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room

[PoplarGrove]

Men have been coming into women's spaces to cause harm well before the transgender bathroom issue. IMO, until individual bathrooms and changing stalls are standard, the unisex or family individual bathroom that most establishments including gyms provide is a good compromise.

Transgender women are not the issue, predatory men are.

It just feels with these threads that we're beating a dead horse. Half the women in this group believe that transgender women are women and half don't and I just feel that these threads aren't going to change minds.

There are a lot of women in my life that I love deeply and want to see safe and protected and respected. Some of these women were born with male genitalia and obviously I want them included and respected when talking about how to keep women safe.

And is it so easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces? This guy was arrested, as he should have been. Honestly, if a naked woman came up to my daughter in the locker room and asked to shower with her and rub lotion on her, arrest would be going easy on her, lol.

Honestly, I wish we'd go back to bathroom and locker room attendants like what was standard when I was growing up!

Yes, he was arrested…after the damage to the women in that locker room was already done. So preventative action is also important because the law isn't going to pay for a rape victim’s therapy bill if the offense triggers them.

I have shared spaces with gay men and transwomen my whole life and always will, but it should not be that easy for a straight man to prey on and traumatize women in spaces that should be safe.

So i understand what you're saying, but I see both sides and the need to compromise.

That's why I'm glad that my state allows one to change their gender on their birth certificate or license if they meet certain criteria. Checking id when joining a gym would be the easiest way to determine one's gender and which locker room they were permitted to use. In the story, the guy booked online as a male. That should have automatically prevented him from entering the women's locker room.

I know that this wouldn't work in states that don't allow someone to change their gender on their ID.

I think it would be rare for a predatory male to go through the legal process of changing one's id just to enter a women's space. We are talking about 1% of the population. I think there is a way to both protect women from predatory men and protect transgender women we just need the will.

I do like that compromise but in most place a person has to have lived as their chosen gender for at least a year and jump through a lot of hoops to have their gender marker switched on their birth certificate.

We should be fighting for a different type of change room and washroom set up across the board and then it doesn't matter what genitals you have in your pants

[Slimshandy]

It’s either blatantly obvious that this was a man trying to take advantage of Planet Fitness’s locker room policy…



Or people would rather put women in a crazy uncomfortable position than dare offend a man…



Either way, women are in danger because of these people and their agenda…

These people? Cis men who are pretending to be women when they, in fact, are not women and never intend to BE women? Or "These people" women who have penises who just want to be left the hell alone and get dressed? Which ones are you talking about?

These people meaning,


The ones who saw what this man did, and blamed a woman for his actions .

[SouthernIslander]

Men have been coming into women's spaces to cause harm well before the transgender bathroom issue. IMO, until individual bathrooms and changing stalls are standard, the unisex or family individual bathroom that most establishments including gyms provide is a good compromise.

Transgender women are not the issue, predatory men are.

It just feels with these threads that we're beating a dead horse. Half the women in this group believe that transgender women are women and half don't and I just feel that these threads aren't going to change minds.

There are a lot of women in my life that I love deeply and want to see safe and protected and respected. Some of these women were born with male genitalia and obviously I want them included and respected when talking about how to keep women safe.

And is it so easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces? This guy was arrested, as he should have been. Honestly, if a naked woman came up to my daughter in the locker room and asked to shower with her and rub lotion on her, arrest would be going easy on her, lol.

Honestly, I wish we'd go back to bathroom and locker room attendants like what was standard when I was growing up!

Yes, he was arrested…after the damage to the women in that locker room was already done. So preventative action is also important because the law isn't going to pay for a rape victim’s therapy bill if the offense triggers them.

I have shared spaces with gay men and transwomen my whole life and always will, but it should not be that easy for a straight man to prey on and traumatize women in spaces that should be safe.

So i understand what you're saying, but I see both sides and the need to compromise.

That's why I'm glad that my state allows one to change their gender on their birth certificate or license if they meet certain criteria. Checking id when joining a gym would be the easiest way to determine one's gender and which locker room they were permitted to use. In the story, the guy booked online as a male. That should have automatically prevented him from entering the women's locker room.

I know that this wouldn't work in states that don't allow someone to change their gender on their ID.

I think it would be rare for a predatory male to go through the legal process of changing one's id just to enter a women's space. We are talking about 1% of the population. I think there is a way to both protect women from predatory men and protect transgender women we just need the will.

I think that is a fantastic compromise and all Americans should have that right IMHO. I agree, I don't think a straight man would go through a legal process to be a perv and it would prevent occurrences like this. I get what y'all are saying too because my problem is straight men who lie...not transwomen or even gay men.

[SouthernIslander]

I'm confused. I assumed the argument in the last thread was that transgender women who still had male genitalia would be able to walk around with their genitalia exposed - face height! So someone walks around with genitalia exposed and they are arrested and this is seen as a bad thing?

I think the problem is, it is too easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces. As predatory as men are, I can't say this isn't a valid concern.

That doesn't mean ban all trans women from our spaces, but there needs to be a compromise. IMHO.

What compromise do you want?

Something similar to Well's suggestion.

[PoplarGrove]

It’s either blatantly obvious that this was a man trying to take advantage of Planet Fitness’s locker room policy…



Or people would rather put women in a crazy uncomfortable position than dare offend a man…



Either way, women are in danger because of these people and their agenda…

These people? Cis men who are pretending to be women when they, in fact, are not women and never intend to BE women? Or "These people" women who have penises who just want to be left the hell alone and get dressed? Which ones are you talking about?

These people meaning,


The ones who saw what this man did, and blamed a woman for his actions .

No one blamed the woman for calling 911 on Miller. Either in the article or on here. The woman who bothered a transgender woman who was shaving her face while completely covered was called out on social media.

[SouthernIslander]

I'm confused. I assumed the argument in the last thread was that transgender women who still had male genitalia would be able to walk around with their genitalia exposed - face height! So someone walks around with genitalia exposed and they are arrested and this is seen as a bad thing?

I think the problem is, it is too easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces. As predatory as men are, I can't say this isn't a valid concern.

That doesn't mean ban all trans women from our spaces, but there needs to be a compromise. IMHO.

As indicated by this perps arrest, I disagree that it's any more easy now than it was fifty years ago.

Ok, we can agree to disagree. That hasn't been my experience, but everyone is different.

[Slimshandy]

These people? Cis men who are pretending to be women when they, in fact, are not women and never intend to BE women? Or "These people" women who have penises who just want to be left the hell alone and get dressed? Which ones are you talking about?

These people meaning,


The ones who saw what this man did, and blamed a woman for his actions .

No one blamed the woman for calling 911 on Miller. Either in the article or on here. The woman who bothered a transgender woman who was shaving her face while completely covered was called out on social media.

And apparently it’s the woman in Alaska’s fault that this man acted like a pervert…

If she would have just minded her own business, this man would have never acted like a pig…

[SouthernIslander]

Men have been coming into women's spaces to cause harm well before the transgender bathroom issue. IMO, until individual bathrooms and changing stalls are standard, the unisex or family individual bathroom that most establishments including gyms provide is a good compromise.

Transgender women are not the issue, predatory men are.

It just feels with these threads that we're beating a dead horse. Half the women in this group believe that transgender women are women and half don't and I just feel that these threads aren't going to change minds.

There are a lot of women in my life that I love deeply and want to see safe and protected and respected. Some of these women were born with male genitalia and obviously I want them included and respected when talking about how to keep women safe.

And is it so easy for a man to say he identifies as a woman to enter female spaces? This guy was arrested, as he should have been. Honestly, if a naked woman came up to my daughter in the locker room and asked to shower with her and rub lotion on her, arrest would be going easy on her, lol.

Honestly, I wish we'd go back to bathroom and locker room attendants like what was standard when I was growing up!

Yes, he was arrested…after the damage to the women in that locker room was already done. So preventative action is also important because the law isn't going to pay for a rape victim’s therapy bill if the offense triggers them.

I have shared spaces with gay men and transwomen my whole life and always will, but it should not be that easy for a straight man to prey on and traumatize women in spaces that should be safe.

So i understand what you're saying, but I see both sides and the need to compromise.

I feel like PF is doing what they can within their purview to keep their spaces safe for all members. They have policy and so far it seems they are upholding their policy. This Miller dude broke policy and he has been arrested for it. What more can we ask for? No place is 100% safe and it's unrealistic to ask any business to try to absolutely guarantee our safety. And it has nothing to do with trans people. Perverts are going to try to do things in locker rooms no matter what. I'm pretty sure there's been many jokes about it in tv and movies long before trans was ever this big deal. And PF can't guarantee that no one will try something in a locker room any more than they can guarantee that no lunatic will bust in the front door and shoot down everyone on the treadmills. There just aren't those guarantees in life. As long as we are all human beings, we will continue to be violent to each other. Nothing will change that.

So I have to wonder, when people talk about these "safe spaces" and especially "safe spaces for women", what does that REALLY mean? Since there are no guarantees in life, what does it really mean and what are we really, realistically, striving for in these spaces?

My comment is general. I'm not bashing PF's policy.

[Traci_Momof2]

Yes, he was arrested…after the damage to the women in that locker room was already done. So preventative action is also important because the law isn't going to pay for a rape victim’s therapy bill if the offense triggers them.

I have shared spaces with gay men and transwomen my whole life and always will, but it should not be that easy for a straight man to prey on and traumatize women in spaces that should be safe.

So i understand what you're saying, but I see both sides and the need to compromise.

I feel like PF is doing what they can within their purview to keep their spaces safe for all members. They have policy and so far it seems they are upholding their policy. This Miller dude broke policy and he has been arrested for it. What more can we ask for? No place is 100% safe and it's unrealistic to ask any business to try to absolutely guarantee our safety. And it has nothing to do with trans people. Perverts are going to try to do things in locker rooms no matter what. I'm pretty sure there's been many jokes about it in tv and movies long before trans was ever this big deal. And PF can't guarantee that no one will try something in a locker room any more than they can guarantee that no lunatic will bust in the front door and shoot down everyone on the treadmills. There just aren't those guarantees in life. As long as we are all human beings, we will continue to be violent to each other. Nothing will change that.

So I have to wonder, when people talk about these "safe spaces" and especially "safe spaces for women", what does that REALLY mean? Since there are no guarantees in life, what does it really mean and what are we really, realistically, striving for in these spaces?

My comment is general. I'm not bashing PF's policy.

PF is the example, but my comments are still general. When has any women's restroom or locker room or change room been truly 100% safe? Because I don't think they have ever been.

[Francee89]

Let’s start with the places women are being legitimately raped…


No “penis owners” in women’s prisons…
They should have their own wing of the men’s prison where only transgendered people are allowed to go so they don’t face increased attacks based on how they identify, but there’s also no chance for a dude who has identified as a woman for the last 30 seconds to be thrown into women’s gen pop.

Should cisgender men be outlawed from being guards or other staff in women’s prisons? Because they’re the source of a lot more documented sexual violence towards female inmates than trans inmates are.

I wouldn’t mind it at all… I think that would be a great idea.

That seems incredibly unlikely to happen, even if only from a logistics standpoint. Not including you in this, but I find the lack of concern in some corners about female prisoner’s safety until it involves trans people pretty telling.

If we take Tom Cotton, he introduced the “Preventing Violence Against Female Inmates Act”, which would force federal prisons to house inmates according to biological S*x, but I can’t find a single other piece of legislation he’s written about protecting female prisoners violence in over a decade of being a lawmaker. The Heritage Foundation has an article about a Rikers inmate alleging abuse from another trans prisoner, but nothing on their site about the hundreds of lawsuits of victims of abuse by staff at the same facility: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna126898