Arizona Supreme Court rules a near-total abortion ban from 1864 is enforceable

[Slimshandy]

Sure, but as long as we are F***ing the laws, people can just illegally go to a real doctor. As long as they are traveling to get an abortion, they can travel to a real doctor. Unless someone really just wants an herbal abortion, I don't see how it's an alternative to a standard medical abortion - it's a crime or a travel either way.

It’s an alternative, because they have a 62% higher chance of death in a state that doesn’t allow abortion.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/public ... e-outcomes
I can’t personally take every woman that wants one to get one, most women can’t afford it and won’t be able to get there.

So the knowledge is needed.

Again, I don't disagree that some women will be forced to try an herbal abortion on their own, but I don't agree that it's safe to do so. There will be a lot of failed attempts and a lot of complications and more maternal deaths. I think we can agree that it should not have come to this.

I would agree that it should have never come to this…


It’s like during Covid restrictions when there was no more normal baby formula on the shelves to be had and people were sharing their great-grandmother’s recipes for baby formula…


No, of course that wasn’t the best possible formula for a baby to have, but if the choice is homemade or nothing and the baby starves, that had to be an option.

[WellPreserved]

It’s an alternative, because they have a 62% higher chance of death in a state that doesn’t allow abortion.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/public ... e-outcomes
I can’t personally take every woman that wants one to get one, most women can’t afford it and won’t be able to get there.

So the knowledge is needed.

Again, I don't disagree that some women will be forced to try an herbal abortion on their own, but I don't agree that it's safe to do so. There will be a lot of failed attempts and a lot of complications and more maternal deaths. I think we can agree that it should not have come to this.

I would agree that it should have never come to this…


It’s like during Covid restrictions when there was no more normal baby formula on the shelves to be had and people were sharing their great-grandmother’s recipes for baby formula…


No, of course that wasn’t the best possible formula for a baby to have, but if the choice is homemade or nothing and the baby starves, that had to be an option.

As long as there are nursing mothers, it will never be a choice between homemade or nothing.

[Slimshandy]

Again, I don't disagree that some women will be forced to try an herbal abortion on their own, but I don't agree that it's safe to do so. There will be a lot of failed attempts and a lot of complications and more maternal deaths. I think we can agree that it should not have come to this.

I would agree that it should have never come to this…


It’s like during Covid restrictions when there was no more normal baby formula on the shelves to be had and people were sharing their great-grandmother’s recipes for baby formula…


No, of course that wasn’t the best possible formula for a baby to have, but if the choice is homemade or nothing and the baby starves, that had to be an option.

As long as there are nursing mothers, it will never be a choice between homemade or nothing.

That’s a very privileged point of view.

A nursing mother isn’t always available. Some babies are adopted… some babies are born to a mother with a very low milk supply, some babies are born with a milk allergy, some babies had their mother die during birth…

Fact of the matter is, some babies needed formula and there wasn’t any way to get breast milk.

[WellPreserved]

I would agree that it should have never come to this…


It’s like during Covid restrictions when there was no more normal baby formula on the shelves to be had and people were sharing their great-grandmother’s recipes for baby formula…


No, of course that wasn’t the best possible formula for a baby to have, but if the choice is homemade or nothing and the baby starves, that had to be an option.

As long as there are nursing mothers, it will never be a choice between homemade or nothing.

That’s a very privileged point of view.

A nursing mother isn’t always available. Some babies are adopted… some babies are born to a mother with a very low milk supply, some babies are born with a milk allergy, some babies had their mother die during birth…

Fact of the matter is, some babies needed formula and there wasn’t any way to get breast milk.

I'm remembering back to Covid when we had a shortage of formula compounded by the fact that we only have several sources, and some started sharing FB posts recommending "grandmother's recipes". These posts were flagged by FB as mis-information as they should have been because feeding your infant cows milk and karo, while some of our grandmothers may have done it, is just not safe. In our community, the reaction to these posts was pretty fierce, even from the crunchy moms, as most understood that these recommendations weren't safe. Mom's were referred to our local breast bank and La Leche and donations of breast milk were plentiful. Donations of formula including samples were given to our local food bank. Our regional "community action"/CHIP worked with our non-profits to acquire formula from out-of-county. Mom's and women in general help each other and that includes in feeding their infants.

This is not coming from a place of privilege. I am well aware that not all women can (or should) breast feed and formula is the most viable option. Women who breastfeed can and should help those who can't when there is a formula shortage. I find this safer and more reasonable then relying on grandma's recipe.

I consider myself kind of a crunchy mom and will in many cases go for herbals, traditional healing, and "grandma's" recommendations. But I also recognize that historically those herbals and medicines were out of necessity when other options weren't available. For example, if someone had an infection, I would recommend an antibiotic, not blood letting, even though blood letting was the course of action for 1000s of years.

[Slimshandy]

As long as there are nursing mothers, it will never be a choice between homemade or nothing.

That’s a very privileged point of view.

A nursing mother isn’t always available. Some babies are adopted… some babies are born to a mother with a very low milk supply, some babies are born with a milk allergy, some babies had their mother die during birth…

Fact of the matter is, some babies needed formula and there wasn’t any way to get breast milk.

I'm remembering back to Covid when we had a shortage of formula compounded by the fact that we only have several sources, and some started sharing FB posts recommending "grandmother's recipes". These posts were flagged by FB as mis-information as they should have been because feeding your infant cows milk and karo, while some of our grandmothers may have done it, is just not safe. In our community, the reaction to these posts was pretty fierce, even from the crunchy moms, as most understood that these recommendations weren't safe. Mom's were referred to our local breast bank and La Leche and donations of breast milk were plentiful. Donations of formula including samples were given to our local food bank. Our regional "community action"/CHIP worked with our non-profits to acquire formula from out-of-county. Mom's and women in general help each other and that includes in feeding their infants.

This is not coming from a place of privilege. I am well aware that not all women can (or should) breast feed and formula is the most viable option. Women who breastfeed can and should help those who can't when there is a formula shortage. I find this safer and more reasonable then relying on grandma's recipe.

I consider myself kind of a crunchy mom and will in many cases go for herbals, traditional healing, and "grandma's" recommendations. But I also recognize that historically those herbals and medicines were out of necessity when other options weren't available. For example, if someone had an infection, I would recommend an antibiotic, not blood letting, even though blood letting was the course of action for 1000s of years.

We don’t have a local breast milk bank… the closest La leche is over four hours away.



That was just not a plausible solution for many others around the country.

It was not easy to get donated breast milk, and there was no formula on the shelves.



It was a privilege to be able to get breast milk when the formula was gone, and tons of women were not that privileged.

[WellPreserved]

That’s a very privileged point of view.

A nursing mother isn’t always available. Some babies are adopted… some babies are born to a mother with a very low milk supply, some babies are born with a milk allergy, some babies had their mother die during birth…

Fact of the matter is, some babies needed formula and there wasn’t any way to get breast milk.

I'm remembering back to Covid when we had a shortage of formula compounded by the fact that we only have several sources, and some started sharing FB posts recommending "grandmother's recipes". These posts were flagged by FB as mis-information as they should have been because feeding your infant cows milk and karo, while some of our grandmothers may have done it, is just not safe. In our community, the reaction to these posts was pretty fierce, even from the crunchy moms, as most understood that these recommendations weren't safe. Mom's were referred to our local breast bank and La Leche and donations of breast milk were plentiful. Donations of formula including samples were given to our local food bank. Our regional "community action"/CHIP worked with our non-profits to acquire formula from out-of-county. Mom's and women in general help each other and that includes in feeding their infants.

This is not coming from a place of privilege. I am well aware that not all women can (or should) breast feed and formula is the most viable option. Women who breastfeed can and should help those who can't when there is a formula shortage. I find this safer and more reasonable then relying on grandma's recipe.

I consider myself kind of a crunchy mom and will in many cases go for herbals, traditional healing, and "grandma's" recommendations. But I also recognize that historically those herbals and medicines were out of necessity when other options weren't available. For example, if someone had an infection, I would recommend an antibiotic, not blood letting, even though blood letting was the course of action for 1000s of years.

We don’t have a local breast milk bank… the closest La leche is over four hours away.



That was just not a plausible solution for many others around the country.

It was not easy to get donated breast milk, and there was no formula on the shelves.



It was a privilege to be able to get breast milk when the formula was gone, and tons of women were not that privileged.

Women deserve safe options to feed their infants. In times of formula shortage, these options can include consulting with their pediatrician, mid-wife, or doula on appropriate formula free diet, reaching out to LL or other women's organizations (online or in person) to find sources of nutrition, reaching out to your local "mom" group or maternity wing of your local hospital to get connected with other mom's who are breast feeding or formula feeding, reaching out to CHIP or local food banks for options, if your infant is old enough, perhaps weaning early. Googling (ha!) what organizations such as UNICEF recommend when servicing communities that don't have safe formula options, i.e., communities without potable water. IMO, relying on someone's "grandma's recipe" via social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

Women deserve safe options to obtain an abortion whether that is a medical abortion or surgical abortion. Thankfully, there are still many groups in the US that are working to provide that to all women. IMO, relying on herbal recipes posted on social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

I'm not surprised that the above remedies are prolific on social media but I think that's indicative of a larger problem in this country. Where women (and kids and men) are relying on SM to form connections rather than forming connections with members of their community so when in times of need, they look to SM for answers. Unfortunately, SM is rife with dangerous, ill-informed information.

[Slimshandy]

I'm remembering back to Covid when we had a shortage of formula compounded by the fact that we only have several sources, and some started sharing FB posts recommending "grandmother's recipes". These posts were flagged by FB as mis-information as they should have been because feeding your infant cows milk and karo, while some of our grandmothers may have done it, is just not safe. In our community, the reaction to these posts was pretty fierce, even from the crunchy moms, as most understood that these recommendations weren't safe. Mom's were referred to our local breast bank and La Leche and donations of breast milk were plentiful. Donations of formula including samples were given to our local food bank. Our regional "community action"/CHIP worked with our non-profits to acquire formula from out-of-county. Mom's and women in general help each other and that includes in feeding their infants.

This is not coming from a place of privilege. I am well aware that not all women can (or should) breast feed and formula is the most viable option. Women who breastfeed can and should help those who can't when there is a formula shortage. I find this safer and more reasonable then relying on grandma's recipe.

I consider myself kind of a crunchy mom and will in many cases go for herbals, traditional healing, and "grandma's" recommendations. But I also recognize that historically those herbals and medicines were out of necessity when other options weren't available. For example, if someone had an infection, I would recommend an antibiotic, not blood letting, even though blood letting was the course of action for 1000s of years.

We don’t have a local breast milk bank… the closest La leche is over four hours away.



That was just not a plausible solution for many others around the country.

It was not easy to get donated breast milk, and there was no formula on the shelves.



It was a privilege to be able to get breast milk when the formula was gone, and tons of women were not that privileged.

Women deserve safe options to feed their infants. In times of formula shortage, these options can include consulting with their pediatrician, mid-wife, or doula on appropriate formula free diet, reaching out to LL or other women's organizations (online or in person) to find sources of nutrition, reaching out to your local "mom" group or maternity wing of your local hospital to get connected with other mom's who are breast feeding or formula feeding, reaching out to CHIP or local food banks for options, if your infant is old enough, perhaps weaning early. Googling (ha!) what organizations such as UNICEF recommend when servicing communities that don't have safe formula options, i.e., communities without potable water. IMO, relying on someone's "grandma's recipe" via social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

Women deserve safe options to obtain an abortion whether that is a medical abortion or surgical abortion. Thankfully, there are still many groups in the US that are working to provide that to all women. IMO, relying on herbal recipes posted on social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

I'm not surprised that the above remedies are prolific on social media but I think that's indicative of a larger problem in this country. Where women (and kids and men) are relying on SM to form connections rather than forming connections with members of their community so when in times of need, they look to SM for answers. Unfortunately, SM is rife with dangerous, ill-informed information.

Of course women deserve these options… but they didn’t get them.


Women do deserve safe abortions, but in many places, they can’t get it…


Women deserve a LOT that they are not getting…



Sometimes the most dire of emergencies happen where they either get what they need themselves, or they don’t get it…



That’s the tragic truth.


The one we don’t WANT to be true, but they were true anyways.


Help isn’t always going to come.

[Slimshandy]

I'm remembering back to Covid when we had a shortage of formula compounded by the fact that we only have several sources, and some started sharing FB posts recommending "grandmother's recipes". These posts were flagged by FB as mis-information as they should have been because feeding your infant cows milk and karo, while some of our grandmothers may have done it, is just not safe. In our community, the reaction to these posts was pretty fierce, even from the crunchy moms, as most understood that these recommendations weren't safe. Mom's were referred to our local breast bank and La Leche and donations of breast milk were plentiful. Donations of formula including samples were given to our local food bank. Our regional "community action"/CHIP worked with our non-profits to acquire formula from out-of-county. Mom's and women in general help each other and that includes in feeding their infants.

This is not coming from a place of privilege. I am well aware that not all women can (or should) breast feed and formula is the most viable option. Women who breastfeed can and should help those who can't when there is a formula shortage. I find this safer and more reasonable then relying on grandma's recipe.

I consider myself kind of a crunchy mom and will in many cases go for herbals, traditional healing, and "grandma's" recommendations. But I also recognize that historically those herbals and medicines were out of necessity when other options weren't available. For example, if someone had an infection, I would recommend an antibiotic, not blood letting, even though blood letting was the course of action for 1000s of years.

We don’t have a local breast milk bank… the closest La leche is over four hours away.



That was just not a plausible solution for many others around the country.

It was not easy to get donated breast milk, and there was no formula on the shelves.



It was a privilege to be able to get breast milk when the formula was gone, and tons of women were not that privileged.

Women deserve safe options to feed their infants. In times of formula shortage, these options can include consulting with their pediatrician, mid-wife, or doula on appropriate formula free diet, reaching out to LL or other women's organizations (online or in person) to find sources of nutrition, reaching out to your local "mom" group or maternity wing of your local hospital to get connected with other mom's who are breast feeding or formula feeding, reaching out to CHIP or local food banks for options, if your infant is old enough, perhaps weaning early. Googling (ha!) what organizations such as UNICEF recommend when servicing communities that don't have safe formula options, i.e., communities without potable water. IMO, relying on someone's "grandma's recipe" via social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

Women deserve safe options to obtain an abortion whether that is a medical abortion or surgical abortion. Thankfully, there are still many groups in the US that are working to provide that to all women. IMO, relying on herbal recipes posted on social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

I'm not surprised that the above remedies are prolific on social media but I think that's indicative of a larger problem in this country. Where women (and kids and men) are relying on SM to form connections rather than forming connections with members of their community so when in times of need, they look to SM for answers. Unfortunately, SM is rife with dangerous, ill-informed information.

Of course women deserve formula for their babies if they can’t breastfeed, but in Covid, they didn’t get it.

If course women deserve safe abortions, but in many states, they can’t get it.


Women deserve A LOT that they aren’t getting and sometimes they either have to get it themselves, or they won’t get it.



Help doesn’t always come for other women.
It’s a beautiful thing if in your area help is always there, but that is not the reality for a lot of American women.

[WellPreserved]

We don’t have a local breast milk bank… the closest La leche is over four hours away.



That was just not a plausible solution for many others around the country.

It was not easy to get donated breast milk, and there was no formula on the shelves.



It was a privilege to be able to get breast milk when the formula was gone, and tons of women were not that privileged.

Women deserve safe options to feed their infants. In times of formula shortage, these options can include consulting with their pediatrician, mid-wife, or doula on appropriate formula free diet, reaching out to LL or other women's organizations (online or in person) to find sources of nutrition, reaching out to your local "mom" group or maternity wing of your local hospital to get connected with other mom's who are breast feeding or formula feeding, reaching out to CHIP or local food banks for options, if your infant is old enough, perhaps weaning early. Googling (ha!) what organizations such as UNICEF recommend when servicing communities that don't have safe formula options, i.e., communities without potable water. IMO, relying on someone's "grandma's recipe" via social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

Women deserve safe options to obtain an abortion whether that is a medical abortion or surgical abortion. Thankfully, there are still many groups in the US that are working to provide that to all women. IMO, relying on herbal recipes posted on social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

I'm not surprised that the above remedies are prolific on social media but I think that's indicative of a larger problem in this country. Where women (and kids and men) are relying on SM to form connections rather than forming connections with members of their community so when in times of need, they look to SM for answers. Unfortunately, SM is rife with dangerous, ill-informed information.

Of course women deserve these options… but they didn’t get them.


Women do deserve safe abortions, but in many places, they can’t get it…


Women deserve a LOT that they are not getting…



Sometimes the most dire of emergencies happen where they either get what they need themselves, or they don’t get it…



That’s the tragic truth.


The one we don’t WANT to be true, but they were true anyways.


Help isn’t always going to come.

Were they refused help or did they not ask? I can't imagine any doctor, doula, or midwife not providing a recipe for a formula alternative. I can't imagine any breast feeding mother refusing to assist another mother who can't find alternate nutrition for their child.

You've mentioned that women need to "go it alone" and I think that's a recipe for disaster. Women (and the men who love them) need to work to support each other.

[SallyMae]

I didn’t say anything about self administered… I said traditional healers exist and have knowledge about how to end a pregnancy.

It would be just as illegal for a "traditional healer" to end a pregnancy as it would be for a medical doctor, if abortion is illegal where they practice.

f**k the laws.

If any laws are created that take away a woman’s autonomy over her own body, every woman in the entire country should stand up against them.

I’ll help anyone that wants an abortion get one. If they want to meet with a traditional healer, I’ll drive them. If they want the Abortion pill, I’ll help them get it. If they want a doctor to perform an abortion, I’ll drive them anywhere in the country or Canada, or Mexico to get it…I’ll help them move to a different state if the feel too scared to go home.

You'll do absolutely anything to help a woman, except the one thing that would really help - voting to keep the Republicans who want this out of office.

Please reconsider enabling a Trump win, and then I'll believe you think every woman in the entire country should stand up against them.