What's up with this child labor push?

[Slimshandy]

What do you think about US farmers?

Agricultural is th deadliest industry for child workers and 1000s are injured on farms every year.

Under US labor law, children as young as 12 can work unlimited hours on farms of any size with parental permission, as long as they do not miss school.

Are you asking me for any other reason Besides the fact that I live in Arkansas and you think you already know what my opinion would be?

No. I know you're not a farmer. I'm asking you because rightly, you are greatly offended by companies (or their contractors) that have broken child labor laws and children have been hurt. You have taken this to mean that these companies are immoral which as I said in the other thread, companies don't have morals, they are just interested in profits. If, as you proclaim, they are in fact immoral for subjecting 15 year olds to dangerous machinery, then what about farmers? Or are these companies immoral for breaking labor law not for subjecting children to dangerous machinery?

These laws are in place throughout the country, not just Arkansas, so I'm not sure what you living in Arkansas has to do with it and I have no opinion what your opinion on child labor laws regarding agricultural is as I don't think you've ever posted it.

Yeah…

Any company, regardless of sector, whether that be food production or agriculture is immoral for putting children in life threatening situations.

Farming isn’t just dangerous for children, it’s one of the most dangerous jobs to be in for adults as well.

It’s not ok, it’s immoral, it’s disgusting, and yea, companies can be immoral because guess who runs companies? People that make moral or immoral choices.

[WellPreserved]

Are you asking me for any other reason Besides the fact that I live in Arkansas and you think you already know what my opinion would be?

No. I know you're not a farmer. I'm asking you because rightly, you are greatly offended by companies (or their contractors) that have broken child labor laws and children have been hurt. You have taken this to mean that these companies are immoral which as I said in the other thread, companies don't have morals, they are just interested in profits. If, as you proclaim, they are in fact immoral for subjecting 15 year olds to dangerous machinery, then what about farmers? Or are these companies immoral for breaking labor law not for subjecting children to dangerous machinery?

These laws are in place throughout the country, not just Arkansas, so I'm not sure what you living in Arkansas has to do with it and I have no opinion what your opinion on child labor laws regarding agricultural is as I don't think you've ever posted it.

Yeah…

Any company, regardless of sector, whether that be food production or agriculture is immoral for putting children in life threatening situations.

Farming isn’t just dangerous for children, it’s one of the most dangerous jobs to be in for adults as well.

It’s not ok, it’s immoral, it’s disgusting, and yea, companies can be immoral because guess who runs companies? People that make moral or immoral choices.

So are you saying that farmers who employ their minor children are immorall? If so, I may just agree with you even if I don't believe that companies have morals.

[Slimshandy]

No. I know you're not a farmer. I'm asking you because rightly, you are greatly offended by companies (or their contractors) that have broken child labor laws and children have been hurt. You have taken this to mean that these companies are immoral which as I said in the other thread, companies don't have morals, they are just interested in profits. If, as you proclaim, they are in fact immoral for subjecting 15 year olds to dangerous machinery, then what about farmers? Or are these companies immoral for breaking labor law not for subjecting children to dangerous machinery?

These laws are in place throughout the country, not just Arkansas, so I'm not sure what you living in Arkansas has to do with it and I have no opinion what your opinion on child labor laws regarding agricultural is as I don't think you've ever posted it.

Yeah…

Any company, regardless of sector, whether that be food production or agriculture is immoral for putting children in life threatening situations.

Farming isn’t just dangerous for children, it’s one of the most dangerous jobs to be in for adults as well.

It’s not ok, it’s immoral, it’s disgusting, and yea, companies can be immoral because guess who runs companies? People that make moral or immoral choices.

So are you saying that farmers who employ their minor children are immorall? If so, I may just agree with you even if I don't believe that companies have morals.

If a teenager feeds the cows in the morning before school, fine… if a kid is running the combine, the parents should be arrested.

[Della]

Are you asking me for any other reason Besides the fact that I live in Arkansas and you think you already know what my opinion would be?

No. I know you're not a farmer. I'm asking you because rightly, you are greatly offended by companies (or their contractors) that have broken child labor laws and children have been hurt. You have taken this to mean that these companies are immoral which as I said in the other thread, companies don't have morals, they are just interested in profits. If, as you proclaim, they are in fact immoral for subjecting 15 year olds to dangerous machinery, then what about farmers? Or are these companies immoral for breaking labor law not for subjecting children to dangerous machinery?

These laws are in place throughout the country, not just Arkansas, so I'm not sure what you living in Arkansas has to do with it and I have no opinion what your opinion on child labor laws regarding agricultural is as I don't think you've ever posted it.

Yeah…

Any company, regardless of sector, whether that be food production or agriculture is immoral for putting children in life threatening situations.

Farming isn’t just dangerous for children, it’s one of the most dangerous jobs to be in for adults as well.

It’s not ok, it’s immoral, it’s disgusting, and yea, companies can be immoral because guess who runs companies? People that make moral or immoral choices.

Sounds like immoral corporate personhood.

[WellPreserved]

Yeah…

Any company, regardless of sector, whether that be food production or agriculture is immoral for putting children in life threatening situations.

Farming isn’t just dangerous for children, it’s one of the most dangerous jobs to be in for adults as well.

It’s not ok, it’s immoral, it’s disgusting, and yea, companies can be immoral because guess who runs companies? People that make moral or immoral choices.

So are you saying that farmers who employ their minor children are immorall? If so, I may just agree with you even if I don't believe that companies have morals.

If a teenager feeds the cows in the morning before school, fine… if a kid is running the combine, the parents should be arrested.

On what charge? The parents haven't broken the law. Even Tyson, if found to have committed a labor violation will not be "arrested", they will be fined. They face: "up to $15,138 for child labor violations and an enhanced penalty up to $68,801 for child labor violations that cause the death or serious injury of an employee under the age of 18."

Just curious, how would you describe a moral company and can you give an example? If I wanted to place morality on companies and make a list, it would be pretty short as morally, I am against depleting natural resources, harvesting animals for food and other products, polluting the environment, paying less than a living wage, engaging in unfair trade practices, discrimination in the workplace and a whole long list of other other morals that guide my personal life. In some cases my morals guide my choice of products that I consume or places I shop but I wouldn't call companies such as Walmart or Exxon as immoral companies. Someone else may consider cannabis, adult entertainment, alcohol sales as immoral. Are the companies that engage in those sales immoral companies? Is my daughter's craft brewery immoral? In my opinion, Tyson isn't any more moral or immoral than any other meat manufacturer or any other agricultural company.

If we try to moralize companies and corporations then it would logically follow that we moralize government agencies and legislature. Many do, hence "Libtards", "groomers", "baby killers". I don't but I don't care if someone else chooses to do wish whole heartedly that legislatures would stop trying to use morality in passing laws that affect the population some of whom don't agree with their "morals".

[Slimshandy]

No. I know you're not a farmer. I'm asking you because rightly, you are greatly offended by companies (or their contractors) that have broken child labor laws and children have been hurt. You have taken this to mean that these companies are immoral which as I said in the other thread, companies don't have morals, they are just interested in profits. If, as you proclaim, they are in fact immoral for subjecting 15 year olds to dangerous machinery, then what about farmers? Or are these companies immoral for breaking labor law not for subjecting children to dangerous machinery?

These laws are in place throughout the country, not just Arkansas, so I'm not sure what you living in Arkansas has to do with it and I have no opinion what your opinion on child labor laws regarding agricultural is as I don't think you've ever posted it.

Yeah…

Any company, regardless of sector, whether that be food production or agriculture is immoral for putting children in life threatening situations.

Farming isn’t just dangerous for children, it’s one of the most dangerous jobs to be in for adults as well.

It’s not ok, it’s immoral, it’s disgusting, and yea, companies can be immoral because guess who runs companies? People that make moral or immoral choices.

Sounds like immoral corporate personhood.

That’s a tax filing…


Every decision made by “a company” are made by humans…

Those humans either make moral or immoral decisions.


There’s no decisions made by some ethereal entity that runs a company, it’s all humans.

[Slimshandy]

So are you saying that farmers who employ their minor children are immorall? If so, I may just agree with you even if I don't believe that companies have morals.

If a teenager feeds the cows in the morning before school, fine… if a kid is running the combine, the parents should be arrested.

On what charge? The parents haven't broken the law. Even Tyson, if found to have committed a labor violation will not be "arrested", they will be fined. They face: "up to $15,138 for child labor violations and an enhanced penalty up to $68,801 for child labor violations that cause the death or serious injury of an employee under the age of 18."

Just curious, how would you describe a moral company and can you give an example? If I wanted to place morality on companies and make a list, it would be pretty short as morally, I am against depleting natural resources, harvesting animals for food and other products, polluting the environment, paying less than a living wage, engaging in unfair trade practices, discrimination in the workplace and a whole long list of other other morals that guide my personal life. In some cases my morals guide my choice of products that I consume or places I shop but I wouldn't call companies such as Walmart or Exxon as immoral companies. Someone else may consider cannabis, adult entertainment, alcohol sales as immoral. Are the companies that engage in those sales immoral companies? Is my daughter's craft brewery immoral? In my opinion, Tyson isn't any more moral or immoral than any other meat manufacturer or any other agricultural company.

If we try to moralize companies and corporations then it would logically follow that we moralize government agencies and legislature. Many do, hence "Libtards", "groomers", "baby killers". I don't but I don't care if someone else chooses to do wish whole heartedly that legislatures would stop trying to use morality in passing laws that affect the population some of whom don't agree with their "morals".

Is that good enough to you?


A grown man/woman that makes a decision based on greed that leads to a child’s death…. Is a few thousand dollars worth of fines good enough?





As I said… it is BOTH morally and ethically wrong.



Sorry if you disagree, but I’m not going to change my mind on this one.

[WellPreserved]

If a teenager feeds the cows in the morning before school, fine… if a kid is running the combine, the parents should be arrested.

On what charge? The parents haven't broken the law. Even Tyson, if found to have committed a labor violation will not be "arrested", they will be fined. They face: "up to $15,138 for child labor violations and an enhanced penalty up to $68,801 for child labor violations that cause the death or serious injury of an employee under the age of 18."

Just curious, how would you describe a moral company and can you give an example? If I wanted to place morality on companies and make a list, it would be pretty short as morally, I am against depleting natural resources, harvesting animals for food and other products, polluting the environment, paying less than a living wage, engaging in unfair trade practices, discrimination in the workplace and a whole long list of other other morals that guide my personal life. In some cases my morals guide my choice of products that I consume or places I shop but I wouldn't call companies such as Walmart or Exxon as immoral companies. Someone else may consider cannabis, adult entertainment, alcohol sales as immoral. Are the companies that engage in those sales immoral companies? Is my daughter's craft brewery immoral? In my opinion, Tyson isn't any more moral or immoral than any other meat manufacturer or any other agricultural company.

If we try to moralize companies and corporations then it would logically follow that we moralize government agencies and legislature. Many do, hence "Libtards", "groomers", "baby killers". I don't but I don't care if someone else chooses to do wish whole heartedly that legislatures would stop trying to use morality in passing laws that affect the population some of whom don't agree with their "morals".

Is that good enough to you?


A grown man/woman that makes a decision based on greed that leads to a child’s death…. Is a few thousand dollars worth of fines good enough?





As I said… it is BOTH morally and ethically wrong.



Sorry if you disagree, but I’m not going to change my mind on this one.

No, I don't think it's good enough. I think the person who hired the child should be criminally liable and the company should face civil liability (I think they do) in addition to fines.

I'm not trying to change your mind, has any ever been successful in that! But still curious if you can name a company that is moral?

[Slimshandy]

On what charge? The parents haven't broken the law. Even Tyson, if found to have committed a labor violation will not be "arrested", they will be fined. They face: "up to $15,138 for child labor violations and an enhanced penalty up to $68,801 for child labor violations that cause the death or serious injury of an employee under the age of 18."

Just curious, how would you describe a moral company and can you give an example? If I wanted to place morality on companies and make a list, it would be pretty short as morally, I am against depleting natural resources, harvesting animals for food and other products, polluting the environment, paying less than a living wage, engaging in unfair trade practices, discrimination in the workplace and a whole long list of other other morals that guide my personal life. In some cases my morals guide my choice of products that I consume or places I shop but I wouldn't call companies such as Walmart or Exxon as immoral companies. Someone else may consider cannabis, adult entertainment, alcohol sales as immoral. Are the companies that engage in those sales immoral companies? Is my daughter's craft brewery immoral? In my opinion, Tyson isn't any more moral or immoral than any other meat manufacturer or any other agricultural company.

If we try to moralize companies and corporations then it would logically follow that we moralize government agencies and legislature. Many do, hence "Libtards", "groomers", "baby killers". I don't but I don't care if someone else chooses to do wish whole heartedly that legislatures would stop trying to use morality in passing laws that affect the population some of whom don't agree with their "morals".

Is that good enough to you?


A grown man/woman that makes a decision based on greed that leads to a child’s death…. Is a few thousand dollars worth of fines good enough?





As I said… it is BOTH morally and ethically wrong.



Sorry if you disagree, but I’m not going to change my mind on this one.

No, I don't think it's good enough. I think the person who hired the child should be criminally liable and the company should face civil liability (I think they do) in addition to fines.

I'm not trying to change your mind, has any ever been successful in that! But still curious if you can name a company that is moral?

I can think of a bunch that are run by people I personally know… but I would have to do a lot of research before commenting on a giant corporation that is either moral or ethical.


Does the size they grow to limit the need for ethical decision making?

[WellPreserved]

Is that good enough to you?


A grown man/woman that makes a decision based on greed that leads to a child’s death…. Is a few thousand dollars worth of fines good enough?





As I said… it is BOTH morally and ethically wrong.



Sorry if you disagree, but I’m not going to change my mind on this one.

No, I don't think it's good enough. I think the person who hired the child should be criminally liable and the company should face civil liability (I think they do) in addition to fines.

I'm not trying to change your mind, has any ever been successful in that! But still curious if you can name a company that is moral?

I can think of a bunch that are run by people I personally know… but I would have to do a lot of research before commenting on a giant corporation that is either moral or ethical.


Does the size they grow to limit the need for ethical decision making?

I don't think size has anything to do with it. Most businesses have ethics and are reflected in their Code of Conduct, ethical statement, for by-laws. These ethical standards are reflective of societies laws and societal ethical standards which can vary country to country and are not necessarily compatible with an individual's morals.

Of course, SCOTUS shook that up, allowing businesses to discriminate based on religious freedom but I obviously think that was a huge mistake. Ethics and morals are used interchangeably when studying philosophy but there is a distinction when talking about law, journalism, medicine, and business among other things and to simplify, usually the distinction is between societal (ethics) and individual (morals).