Donald Trump's Losing White Evangelicals to Joe Biden

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Slimshandy
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mommy_jules wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:35 pm
Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:34 pm
mommy_jules wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:18 pm

Which ones are the “white ones”? Are these Presbyterians part of the same denomination? What question are you referring to?
Meaning the people who are white… they’re the ones being referenced when these articles describe how White Evangelicals vote…
This is a post about how White Evangelicals vote.


It seems we’re running into the problem of realizing that white evangelicals come from a lot of different backgrounds, denominations, and cultural relevancy beliefs that would suggest they don’t all vote the same.
I realize that this post is about white evangelicals. I asked because you wrote the highlighted portion. It’s confusing. Were we/you suddenly talking about a different group? Was one of the hypothetical people from West Hollywood or Alabama a different race/ethnicity, because that does change things as well. Also, I’m very much aware of the different beliefs and denominations of evangelicals (I stated as much in my post to OP), and that is precisely why I asked if the Presbyterians were from the same denomination.
The white ones means the white people… the white evangelicals.

I did make a distinction because not all Presbyterians are white.

Yes, the Presbyterians in my example are the same denominations. I’ve attended Presbyterian churches in both states, the people in both churches have different priorities.
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Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:43 pm
mommy_jules wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:35 pm
Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:34 pm

Meaning the people who are white… they’re the ones being referenced when these articles describe how White Evangelicals vote…
This is a post about how White Evangelicals vote.


It seems we’re running into the problem of realizing that white evangelicals come from a lot of different backgrounds, denominations, and cultural relevancy beliefs that would suggest they don’t all vote the same.
I realize that this post is about white evangelicals. I asked because you wrote the highlighted portion. It’s confusing. Were we/you suddenly talking about a different group? Was one of the hypothetical people from West Hollywood or Alabama a different race/ethnicity, because that does change things as well. Also, I’m very much aware of the different beliefs and denominations of evangelicals (I stated as much in my post to OP), and that is precisely why I asked if the Presbyterians were from the same denomination.
The white ones means the white people… the white evangelicals.

I did make a distinction because not all Presbyterians are white.

Yes, the Presbyterians in my example are the same denominations. I’ve attended Presbyterian churches in both states, the people in both churches have different priorities.
How so?
306/232

But I'm still the winner! They lied! They cheated! They stole the election!
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Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:44 pm
mommy_jules wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:24 pm
Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:08 pm

They are both evangelical, and the white ones would be labeled as all “ White evangelicals “
Geography plays a role in culture.

So the question remains for me…
How does geography play a role? And no, Presbyterian does not equal evangelical. PC(USA) the largest Presbyterian denomination is not evangelical. It is mainline Protestant. PCA is an evangelical denomination and is much more conservative than the PC(USA), so someone who attends a PCA church in West Hollywood will likely have more in common with a SBC (Baptist) church goer in Alabama, especially if that SBC church goer is Calvinist or Reformed. Geography isn’t that important.
PCUSA is evangelical.
PCA is evangelical.
And obviously the Evangelical Presbyterian Church is evangelical.


https://www.pcusa.org/news/2012/3/7/you ... -are-they/




Geography is one of the biggest influences on culture there is. In the United States it has a huge impact on occupations, societal roles, food, and education level, all of which influence religious and political beliefs.
The PCUSA is not evangelical. Having an article explaining what evangelicals are does not make one an evangelical.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/conservative ... ral-battle

The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA), which is the largest Presbyterian denomination in the U.S., made headlines in October when its Office of General Assembly announced that it would be adding a "nonbinary/genderqueer" option to its official church statistics in a push to be "inclusive," according to a press release. The mainline denomination is theologically liberal and ordains women as well as practicing members of the LGBTQ community.
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SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:51 pm
WellPreserved wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:46 am
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:15 am Not in the south. I’ll believe it after the election results are in.
I haven't seen indication of white evangelical voters leaving Trump either but what I have seen is a shift in who identifies as a white evangelical, if that makes sense😅
Do they really call themselves white evangelicals? I don’t have a problem with it but I have never heard of that before Trump.
No, they just call themselves Trump supporters😂

In my neck of the woods, I remember when newcomers were asked "where they churched". It evolved into "are you Republican or Democrat". Now it's "Do you support Trump". Since 2016, every demonstration (and goodness we have lots) ranging from flaggers on the courthouse lawn to pro-lifers in the town park to anti-LGBTQ demos at our local school have been framed around "true Christian" and "Trump supporter".

In real life, I've seen a lot of people lay low with their religious affiliation and keep it personal. Many of our community members who are associated with an evangelical church are doing this. At the same time, I've seen a lot of people who previously held no religious affiliation, proudly proclaim their Christian evangelicalism as a reason behind their protest. Many of these people are not associated with a church.

I'm not saying that they aren't Christian or Christian Evangelicals. I don't think anyone has the authority to proclaim what is in another persons' heart. I'm just saying that many in my community who are proclaiming their evangelicalism didn't do so before Trump and many who did are no longer proclaiming it. I'm not sure if that makes sense, lol.
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mommy_jules wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:55 pm
Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:44 pm
mommy_jules wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:24 pm

How does geography play a role? And no, Presbyterian does not equal evangelical. PC(USA) the largest Presbyterian denomination is not evangelical. It is mainline Protestant. PCA is an evangelical denomination and is much more conservative than the PC(USA), so someone who attends a PCA church in West Hollywood will likely have more in common with a SBC (Baptist) church goer in Alabama, especially if that SBC church goer is Calvinist or Reformed. Geography isn’t that important.
PCUSA is evangelical.
PCA is evangelical.
And obviously the Evangelical Presbyterian Church is evangelical.


https://www.pcusa.org/news/2012/3/7/you ... -are-they/




Geography is one of the biggest influences on culture there is. In the United States it has a huge impact on occupations, societal roles, food, and education level, all of which influence religious and political beliefs.
The PCUSA is not evangelical. Having an article explaining what evangelicals are does not make one an evangelical.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/conservative ... ral-battle

The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA), which is the largest Presbyterian denomination in the U.S., made headlines in October when its Office of General Assembly announced that it would be adding a "nonbinary/genderqueer" option to its official church statistics in a push to be "inclusive," according to a press release. The mainline denomination is theologically liberal and ordains women as well as practicing members of the LGBTQ community.
?
It’s an article posted by PCUSA, that goes over why their Protestant beliefs are evangelical.

You posted a Fox News report.
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Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:23 pm
mommy_jules wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:55 pm
Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:44 pm

PCUSA is evangelical.
PCA is evangelical.
And obviously the Evangelical Presbyterian Church is evangelical.


https://www.pcusa.org/news/2012/3/7/you ... -are-they/




Geography is one of the biggest influences on culture there is. In the United States it has a huge impact on occupations, societal roles, food, and education level, all of which influence religious and political beliefs.
The PCUSA is not evangelical. Having an article explaining what evangelicals are does not make one an evangelical.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/conservative ... ral-battle

The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA), which is the largest Presbyterian denomination in the U.S., made headlines in October when its Office of General Assembly announced that it would be adding a "nonbinary/genderqueer" option to its official church statistics in a push to be "inclusive," according to a press release. The mainline denomination is theologically liberal and ordains women as well as practicing members of the LGBTQ community.
?
It’s an article posted by PCUSA, that goes over why their Protestant beliefs are evangelical.

You posted a Fox News report.
From the article you posted:

"Technically, all Christians are, according to the Religion Newswriters Association’s Religion Stylebook. The word comes from the Greek “evangelion,” which means “good news” or “gospel.” And all who claim to follow Jesus Christ feel obligated to share his gospel.

But the term “evangelical” has come to refer mostly to a type of Protestant, explains Pastor Corey Hodges of New Pilgrim Baptist Church in Kearns, Utah who believe:

In the Trinity;

that the Bible alone is the inerrant and infallible word of God;
that salvation is by grace alone through faith and not accomplished by human effort or achievement; and
that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, and his death and resurrection were the payment for human sin."

PSUSA: Presbyterians have always had a very strong doctrine of biblical authority, but historically most have shied away from calling that doctrine inerrancy.

in my understanding that inerrancy of the Bible is what distinguishes PSUSA as non-Evangelical. Of course, I could be wrong as I'm not Presbyterian but I assume that mommy_jules who is knows what she's talking about and could clarify for you?
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Della wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:33 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:51 pm
WellPreserved wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:46 am

I haven't seen indication of white evangelical voters leaving Trump either but what I have seen is a shift in who identifies as a white evangelical, if that makes sense😅
Do they really call themselves white evangelicals? I don’t have a problem with it but I have never heard of that before Trump.
They're typically called the Christian Right.
I’ve never heard of that either. 😂😂😂😂
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Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:31 pm
WellPreserved wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:13 pm
Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:16 pm

As far as the article posted, this is a spin off now because they were shown to be members…


But do you think someone who did not come from a specific culture should be labeled an expert on that culture, with their opinion being heard louder than the members of that culture?
What good would it do to silo the study of every cultural group so that the only people who can be considered experts must be members of said groups. That doesn't seem beneficial for placing cultures in context with each other, armchair or otherwise. I would hope anthropologists would care about that.

If you don't like what they said, you could have just said that.
I didn’t ask the question based on disliking what they said…


Anthropologists are taught cultural humility. You can be a lifelong learner and researcher on a different culture and write books about your experiences/findings, but you should never be considered so much of an expert on the subject that your voice is louder than the members of that culture.
I'm not familiar with the concept of cultural humility being a stand alone but rather in conjunction with cultural competence. I agree that in order to understand and appropriately study a culture, one needs cultural humility (“Cultural humility involves an ongoing process of self-exploration and self-critique combined with a willingness to learn from others. It means entering a relationship with another person with the intention of honoring their beliefs, customs, and values. It means acknowledging differences and accepting that person for who they are.") One also needs cultural competency (Cultural competence is the ability of an individual to understand and respect values, attitudes, beliefs, and mores that differ across cultures, and to consider and respond appropriately to these differences in planning, implementing, and evaluating health education and promotion programs and interventions.") I would also add that someone needs an understanding of historical reference and the culture's place in time as well as comparison with other cultures of that moment but that's because I studied history, lol.

People who study cultures whether historians, anthropologists, sociologists, most often have access to data and perspectives that an individual or even group within that culture does not. To accurately study a culture, one has to remove biases and again, those within that culture have inherent bias. So in answer to your question, I think it's inaccurate to say that the voice of members of a culture should always take precedence to the voice of an expert but of course, any study of a group must include perspectives of those within the group.

To swing it back to another topic in this forum, "White Rural Rage". It really is an interesting read and quite informative not despite but because it is full of interviews from a wide variety of white rural residents as well as data collected. The two authors aren't anthropologists, they're historians. That is what any good historian would do.
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SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:25 pm
Della wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:33 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:51 pm

Do they really call themselves white evangelicals? I don’t have a problem with it but I have never heard of that before Trump.
They're typically called the Christian Right.
I’ve never heard of that either. 😂😂😂😂
They're the ones with the "God, guns, country" on their pick-em-up truck.
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Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:23 pm
mommy_jules wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:55 pm
Slimshandy wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:44 pm

PCUSA is evangelical.
PCA is evangelical.
And obviously the Evangelical Presbyterian Church is evangelical.


https://www.pcusa.org/news/2012/3/7/you ... -are-they/




Geography is one of the biggest influences on culture there is. In the United States it has a huge impact on occupations, societal roles, food, and education level, all of which influence religious and political beliefs.
The PCUSA is not evangelical. Having an article explaining what evangelicals are does not make one an evangelical.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/conservative ... ral-battle

The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA), which is the largest Presbyterian denomination in the U.S., made headlines in October when its Office of General Assembly announced that it would be adding a "nonbinary/genderqueer" option to its official church statistics in a push to be "inclusive," according to a press release. The mainline denomination is theologically liberal and ordains women as well as practicing members of the LGBTQ community.
?
It’s an article posted by PCUSA, that goes over why their Protestant beliefs are evangelical.

You posted a Fox News report.
The article is by a journalist, Peggy Fletcher Stack who writes for the Salt Lake City Tribune. It explains what an evangelical is or sort of and 2 scholars answer questions about evangelicals. Nowhere does it state that that is how the PCUSA identified. The article I posted has PCA clergy who were former PCUSA members describe the PCUSA as mainline and the Office of the General Assembly of the PCUSA refer to the PCUSA as a mainline denomination. It also highlights the differences between the denominations in terms of religion and politics.
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