the end of democracy

[Slimshandy]

You posted yesterday that “we’re all going to be fine whoever wins”. Given that you’re acknowledging Trump has no respect for the law or democratic process - he tried to steal an election through various means after he lost - what is that based on? Given that he’s done it already, why should anyone believe that he won’t engage in further anti-democratic and illegal activity to get his way if he returns to power? We certainly know that elected Republican officials and Repuvlican voters won’t have any interest in holding him accountable if he does.

I don’t think any of them do…none of them have any respect for the law or process and they’ll all try as hard as they can to take more power anyway they can.

That’s why we have a constitution and laws. Because everyone spanning back to the founding fathers knew this would continually happen…That’s what ultimately stopped Trump, and that’s what will keep whoever the next guy is in-line.


We will be fine whoever the candidate that wins is, what we need to worry about is population response to their perception of procedural and distributive fairness in the election.

It wasn’t the constitution and laws that stopped Trump - he lost his court challenges in the legal system, and still pressed on with his fake electors scheme, his attempts to pressure state legislatures and officials to improperly certify the election for him, and pressured Mike Pence reject the lawfully certified electors in order to become President again after losing. It was Pence’s refusal to go along with this that ultimately stopped him, but 146 House Republicans voted to reject the legal results. Trump still maintains he did nothing wrong with any of this. What happens if next time there’s no Mike Pence figure to refuse to go along with whatever antidemocratic and illegal scheme he cooks up when he doesn’t get his way?

None of that inspires any confidence that “we will be fine whoever the candidate that wins is” given that one of the candidates has demonstrated they have zero respect for democracy and the rule of law if it isn’t in his favor, and their party has shown zero appetite for any accountability for it.

Pence had no option anyways… whether he tried to go along with it or tried to stop it…

There’s no legal option for the Vice President to reject the results, even if some idiots like the my pillow guy thought there was. The law would prevail again.

[Francee89]

I don’t think any of them do…none of them have any respect for the law or process and they’ll all try as hard as they can to take more power anyway they can.

That’s why we have a constitution and laws. Because everyone spanning back to the founding fathers knew this would continually happen…That’s what ultimately stopped Trump, and that’s what will keep whoever the next guy is in-line.


We will be fine whoever the candidate that wins is, what we need to worry about is population response to their perception of procedural and distributive fairness in the election.

It wasn’t the constitution and laws that stopped Trump - he lost his court challenges in the legal system, and still pressed on with his fake electors scheme, his attempts to pressure state legislatures and officials to improperly certify the election for him, and pressured Mike Pence reject the lawfully certified electors in order to become President again after losing. It was Pence’s refusal to go along with this that ultimately stopped him, but 146 House Republicans voted to reject the legal results. Trump still maintains he did nothing wrong with any of this. What happens if next time there’s no Mike Pence figure to refuse to go along with whatever antidemocratic and illegal scheme he cooks up when he doesn’t get his way?

None of that inspires any confidence that “we will be fine whoever the candidate that wins is” given that one of the candidates has demonstrated they have zero respect for democracy and the rule of law if it isn’t in his favor, and their party has shown zero appetite for any accountability for it.

Pence had no option anyways… whether he tried to go along with it or tried to stop it…

There’s no legal option for the Vice President to reject the results, even if some idiots like the my pillow guy thought there was. The law would prevail again.

We’re going in circles here, but Trump has demonstrated he has no respect for the law or democratic results if they don’t go his way. As you’ve said, his supporters don’t think he did anything wrong in doing that. There’s no reason to think he’ll abide by anything - laws, democratic results or political pressure - in a second term, particularly if he staffs an administration with people willing to break the law for him. Nothing stops him from pardoning them, and his supporters will likely regard any attempt at holding him legally accountable after his term in office as illegitimate and unfair.

[SallyMae]

I know all that… I know all that, * and * I know that it doesn’t matter what I think.

It’s like those “If this, then this” problems they have in anticipatory anthropology classes..

If the premise is - All nonbelievers are in a state of denial, then there isn’t anything that will change that. As the last two years have shown us… every time trump gets another court case, his supporters get more emboldened, not less.

If the premise is- He broke the law, so his name can’t be on the ballot, then there will be half of the voting population who disagree and possibly become much more violent than what we saw Jan.6th. They will believe that their right to vote has been taken from them. That is when populations hold “uprisings”, as history has always shown us.

If the premise is- We can’t have him as president again because he might become a dictator, then the only way to avoid that happening without violence and civil war-type of hatred being held by both sides, an alternative candidate needs to be chosen by either the democrats or a third party candidate that both republicans and democrats can accept as a non-threat to themselves.

So, go along with their dangerous delusions, or they will kill you? And if they do, it's your own fault, for not "letting it go"?

No, giving tyrants whatever they want so they they won't kill you is NOT preserving democracy. And it's not "fine."

[Slimshandy]

I know all that… I know all that, * and * I know that it doesn’t matter what I think.

It’s like those “If this, then this” problems they have in anticipatory anthropology classes..

If the premise is - All nonbelievers are in a state of denial, then there isn’t anything that will change that. As the last two years have shown us… every time trump gets another court case, his supporters get more emboldened, not less.

If the premise is- He broke the law, so his name can’t be on the ballot, then there will be half of the voting population who disagree and possibly become much more violent than what we saw Jan.6th. They will believe that their right to vote has been taken from them. That is when populations hold “uprisings”, as history has always shown us.

If the premise is- We can’t have him as president again because he might become a dictator, then the only way to avoid that happening without violence and civil war-type of hatred being held by both sides, an alternative candidate needs to be chosen by either the democrats or a third party candidate that both republicans and democrats can accept as a non-threat to themselves.

So, go along with their dangerous delusions, or they will kill you? And if they do, it's your own fault, for not "letting it go"?

No, giving tyrants whatever they want so they they won't kill you is NOT preserving democracy. And it's not "fine."

No, first you would have to prove it in court. Which it hasn’t been. When he was impeached for abuses of power he was acquitted.

Therefore the voters that would vote for him think they deserve that choice, and have the right to that choice of candidate. They believe the tyranny lies with those who would attempt to take their choice away.


You can’t just think about this from the perspective of your own opinion, nor can I. It won’t work to solve any problems.

[mommy_jules]

https://x.com/taylormatthewd/status/176 ... JJp08VIsbg

This Twitter thread is relevant to this discussion/OP and the IVF thread. There are tons of links and sources in the thread as well.

[SallyMae]

So, go along with their dangerous delusions, or they will kill you? And if they do, it's your own fault, for not "letting it go"?

No, giving tyrants whatever they want so they they won't kill you is NOT preserving democracy. And it's not "fine."

No, first you would have to prove it in court. Which it hasn’t been. When he was impeached for abuses of power he was acquitted.

Therefore the voters that would vote for him think they deserve that choice, and have the right to that choice of candidate. They believe the tyranny lies with those who would attempt to take their choice away.

You can’t just think about this from the perspective of your own opinion, nor can I. It won’t work to solve any problems.

No, this is just me, talking to just you.

I'm asking how it can be "fine" with violent, delusional people with no respect for the law in charge. When they are the head of every department, and the judiciary and legislature are corrupt, who will hold them accountable? By what means? When they control elections, who will make sure the vote is counted fairly? When the "pillow guy" - or someone even more delusional - has a cabinet position, what will happen to YOUR rights?

[Slimshandy]

So, go along with their dangerous delusions, or they will kill you? And if they do, it's your own fault, for not "letting it go"?

No, giving tyrants whatever they want so they they won't kill you is NOT preserving democracy. And it's not "fine."

No, first you would have to prove it in court. Which it hasn’t been. When he was impeached for abuses of power he was acquitted.

Therefore the voters that would vote for him think they deserve that choice, and have the right to that choice of candidate. They believe the tyranny lies with those who would attempt to take their choice away.

You can’t just think about this from the perspective of your own opinion, nor can I. It won’t work to solve any problems.

No, this is just me, talking to just you.

I'm asking how it can be "fine" with violent, delusional people with no respect for the law in charge. When they are the head of every department, and the judiciary and legislature are corrupt, who will hold them accountable? By what means? When they control elections, who will make sure the vote is counted fairly? When the "pillow guy" - or someone even more delusional - has a cabinet position, what will happen to YOUR rights?

Because that’s what we’ve been living under for more than 30 years now…

All those past presidents during that time period have been corrupt, had no respect for the law and ended up killing/ torturing a grand total of millions of people on end with all of their ways to skirt around the law. In our name.

Most people are fine with that though because it’s not Americans that are dead or tortured so they don’t have to think about it… now everyone is SUPER PISSED that an idiot who thought he could change electors, was told he couldn’t and lost. Damn, we could have really used that energy when the kid with down syndrome was being brutally tortured so we could try to get his *possible terrorist* brother to talk…In the grand scheme of presidential monsters, he’s barely on the list. People just care more.







Better question- How do you feel about living in a democracy where you can be acquitted of a crime and that means nothing when it comes to how long an opposing political group will try to take your rights away?