Biden’s Support for Israel Now Comes With Words of Caution

[WellPreserved]

"The administration has become more critical of Israel’s response to the Hamas attacks, a shift that U.S. officials attribute to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/us/p ... =url-share

This article shared so not behind a paywall.

[WellPreserved]

[SouthernIslander]

I really don’t know what the answer is.

I agree, public opinion will shift of Israel continues to bomb Gaza and innocent people are dying. I don’t like it either and innocent people in Gaza should have access to the aid that they need.

But unless someone has a better idea, I’m not sure if Israel has much of a choice. You (general) will lose if you fight fair with an opponent who refuses to follow the rules and everybody can get it.

That is basically asking Israel to put themselves in a sitting duck position.

[Momto2boys973]

Exactly. Every single death is a tragedy. But you can’t ask Israel to go fight Canelo and tie her arms behind her back. Things need to be done and fact is, Israel is trying to do it in the best possible way.
But it’s a war. War is never pretty, even when both parties are supposed to play by the rules- hello Russia/Ukraine. When one party will forsake all rules, well, you have to bend also. Sometimes being the bigger person means getting your ass kicked. And even so, Israel is still then “bigger person” here.
And ultimately, to those bitching about Israel’s response, do you have a better alternative? Some clever suggestions on how to do what needs to be done-destroy Hamas- in an equally effective, but “better” way?
And why is it that they’re crying for a ceasefire, for Israel to retreat and then… what? Talk it over some coffee and cookies? Why aren’t they demanding the release of hostages and Hamas’ surrender? Israel already said that’s all they want. Hamas could end this war in a second, why the world isn’t demanding from THEM to do what could end this war? Why are the demands on Israel? At the cost of her existence?

I really don’t know what the answer is.

I agree, public opinion will shift of Israel continues to bomb Gaza and innocent people are dying. I don’t like it either and innocent people in Gaza should have access to the aid that they need.

But unless someone has a better idea, I’m not sure if Israel has much of a choice. You (general) will lose if you fight fair with an opponent who refuses to follow the rules and everybody can get it.

That is basically asking Israel to put themselves in a sitting duck position.

[WellPreserved]

I really don’t know what the answer is.

I agree, public opinion will shift of Israel continues to bomb Gaza and innocent people are dying. I don’t like it either and innocent people in Gaza should have access to the aid that they need.

But unless someone has a better idea, I’m not sure if Israel has much of a choice. You (general) will lose if you fight fair with an opponent who refuses to follow the rules and everybody can get it.

That is basically asking Israel to put themselves in a sitting duck position.

It is a cluster, that's for sure. I believe we would be looking at a very different scenario today if Israel had heeded warnings from their allies regarding their response immediately following the terrorist attack when they had overwhelming support from all of the west and even some Arab countries. 8000 dead, 2000 missing, and 20,000 injured Palestinian civilians (mainly women and children) has created a situation where Israel has lost and continues to lose support so I don't think they are safer now then they were on October 8th but at the same time, it's hard to see a viable way for them to get that support back.

I always think that diplomacy is a better option that battle but admittedly, I'm biased about that. Certainly Blinken has been working double time with some successes but without at least a temporary ceasefire and a dramatic increase in humanitarian aid reaching Palestinians in Gaza, I don't think we'll see the end of any movement diplomatically. I also think that Israel must stop settlers violence against Palestinians ("More than 100 Palestinians have been killed, more than 2,000 injured and nearly 1,000 forcibly displaced by Israeli settlers since Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel" https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/worl ... lence.html) if they want to be taken seriously that the war is against Hamas and not Palestinians. On the other side, I believe that Hamas must release all hostages.

Hamas is evil and must be destroyed and I support whole heartedly Israel's right to defend itself and I support US supplying military aid in the defense of Israel's border. However, I can't defend war crimes and I think US is making a huge mistake if it supplies any kind of support to a country's perpetration of war crimes no matter who or why as it would have far reaching negative global impact making not just Israel less safe but the US as well. I've been listening to way too many members of our military discuss what Netanyahu should/shouldn't do and what he should have/shouldn't have done with the war against Hamas. I'm not saying that they are right and Netanyahu is wrong, I'm just saying that I believe that Israel has other options.

As far as the dramatic increase in attacks, threats, and intimidation against Jews and Muslims, I think it's horrific. Support for Hamas is equally horrific.

[SouthernIslander]

Exactly. Every single death is a tragedy. But you can’t ask Israel to go fight Canelo and tie her arms behind her back. Things need to be done and fact is, Israel is trying to do it in the best possible way.
But it’s a war. War is never pretty, even when both parties are supposed to play by the rules- hello Russia/Ukraine. When one party will forsake all rules, well, you have to bend also. Sometimes being the bigger person means getting your ass kicked. And even so, Israel is still then “bigger person” here.
And ultimately, to those bitching about Israel’s response, do you have a better alternative? Some clever suggestions on how to do what needs to be done-destroy Hamas- in an equally effective, but “better” way?
And why is it that they’re crying for a ceasefire, for Israel to retreat and then… what? Talk it over some coffee and cookies? Why aren’t they demanding the release of hostages and Hamas’ surrender? Israel already said that’s all they want. Hamas could end this war in a second, why the world isn’t demanding from THEM to do what could end this war? Why are the demands on Israel? At the cost of her existence?

I really don’t know what the answer is.

I agree, public opinion will shift of Israel continues to bomb Gaza and innocent people are dying. I don’t like it either and innocent people in Gaza should have access to the aid that they need.

But unless someone has a better idea, I’m not sure if Israel has much of a choice. You (general) will lose if you fight fair with an opponent who refuses to follow the rules and everybody can get it.

That is basically asking Israel to put themselves in a sitting duck position.

God knows I feel awful for all involved and processing this whole ordeal has tested my own spirituality. But I can’t ask Israel to sacrifice their own people or fold before all the hostages are freed. It’s like we are in a dead stop until the matter with Hanas is resolved.

[SouthernIslander]

I really don’t know what the answer is.

I agree, public opinion will shift of Israel continues to bomb Gaza and innocent people are dying. I don’t like it either and innocent people in Gaza should have access to the aid that they need.

But unless someone has a better idea, I’m not sure if Israel has much of a choice. You (general) will lose if you fight fair with an opponent who refuses to follow the rules and everybody can get it.

That is basically asking Israel to put themselves in a sitting duck position.

It is a cluster, that's for sure. I believe we would be looking at a very different scenario today if Israel had heeded warnings from their allies regarding their response immediately following the terrorist attack when they had overwhelming support from all of the west and even some Arab countries. 8000 dead, 2000 missing, and 20,000 injured Palestinian civilians (mainly women and children) has created a situation where Israel has lost and continues to lose support so I don't think they are safer now then they were on October 8th but at the same time, it's hard to see a viable way for them to get that support back.

I always think that diplomacy is a better option that battle but admittedly, I'm biased about that. Certainly Blinken has been working double time with some successes but without at least a temporary ceasefire and a dramatic increase in humanitarian aid reaching Palestinians in Gaza, I don't think we'll see the end of any movement diplomatically. I also think that Israel must stop settlers violence against Palestinians ("More than 100 Palestinians have been killed, more than 2,000 injured and nearly 1,000 forcibly displaced by Israeli settlers since Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel" https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/worl ... lence.html) if they want to be taken seriously that the war is against Hamas and not Palestinians. On the other side, I believe that Hamas must release all hostages.

Hamas is evil and must be destroyed and I support whole heartedly Israel's right to defend itself and I support US supplying military aid in the defense of Israel's border. However, I can't defend war crimes and I think US is making a huge mistake if it supplies any kind of support to a country's perpetration of war crimes no matter who or why as it would have far reaching negative global impact making not just Israel less safe but the US as well. I've been listening to way too many members of our military discuss what Netanyahu should/shouldn't do and what he should have/shouldn't have done with the war against Hamas. I'm not saying that they are right and Netanyahu is wrong, I'm just saying that I believe that Israel has other options.

As far as the dramatic increase in attacks, threats, and intimidation against Jews and Muslims, I think it's horrific. Support for Hamas is equally horrific.

I know, the death toll has surpassed an “eye for an eye” for the Hamas attack and I really want to learn more about the accusations of apartheid over the years because no country is perfect. I would strongly disagree with restricting humanitarian aid to Gaza.

All of this bothers me and I am all for a diplomatic solution but Hamas isn’t budging. We are coming up on a month and they still haven’t freed those hostages, so I just don’t know what choice they have.

For the sake of actually discussing solutions instead of blame, what did your military friends suggest Israel do?

[Momto2boys973]

It probably has, but not at the extent Hamas claims. Israel isn’t doing it for revenge, she’s doing it because it needs to be done, Israel is fighting for her existence and for the protection of every Jew in the world. So proportionality doesn’t apply.
But Hamas has already been caught inflating casualty numbers during the hospital incident. First they said 500, at some point suggested 900 and what do you know? The hospital itself wasn’t hit, it was a parking lot, it wasn’t an Israeli air strike, it was a PIJ homemade rocket and hundreds of people didn’t die, maybe just about 20.
And so curious how the death toll rises by a thousand each day. Even within the same day! And goes up and down! 5,000 then 6,000 then 7000, then back to 6,000, now 8000. I predict tomorrow it’ll be 9000. Maybe they’ll get ambitions and call an even number and go for 10000.
Even Biden claimed he had no trust in those numbers. And what did Hamas do next? Publish a list of “names” of about 6,000 victims

https://kion546.com/news/2023/10/28/pa ... %20killed.

Let’s not forget that Hamas is a terrorist dictatorship. Every time you read “palestinian officials”, it’s Hamas. Each time the information comes from the “ministry of…”, it’s Hamas. And they’re liars and masters at PR. Here’s how low they go.

[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

So they’re not above throwing dramatic numbers out of their asses and making up a list of names. Take everything that comes from them with a huge mountain of salt. I mean, second video… even the grieving mother is no Meryl Streep. And the third… a victim of an “Israeli airstrike”? He looks pretty unharmed and clean for someone who has been bombed in a place that supposedly has no water… and aren’t they’re supposed to not have electricity and internet? How were these videos taken and distributed then?
Besides, they have shot people trying to evacuate, they’re also blaming Israel for those deaths.

[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

Ultimately, every single death is on their hands. Every.Single.One

I really don’t know what the answer is.

I agree, public opinion will shift of Israel continues to bomb Gaza and innocent people are dying. I don’t like it either and innocent people in Gaza should have access to the aid that they need.

But unless someone has a better idea, I’m not sure if Israel has much of a choice. You (general) will lose if you fight fair with an opponent who refuses to follow the rules and everybody can get it.

That is basically asking Israel to put themselves in a sitting duck position.

It is a cluster, that's for sure. I believe we would be looking at a very different scenario today if Israel had heeded warnings from their allies regarding their response immediately following the terrorist attack when they had overwhelming support from all of the west and even some Arab countries. 8000 dead, 2000 missing, and 20,000 injured Palestinian civilians (mainly women and children) has created a situation where Israel has lost and continues to lose support so I don't think they are safer now then they were on October 8th but at the same time, it's hard to see a viable way for them to get that support back.

I always think that diplomacy is a better option that battle but admittedly, I'm biased about that. Certainly Blinken has been working double time with some successes but without at least a temporary ceasefire and a dramatic increase in humanitarian aid reaching Palestinians in Gaza, I don't think we'll see the end of any movement diplomatically. I also think that Israel must stop settlers violence against Palestinians ("More than 100 Palestinians have been killed, more than 2,000 injured and nearly 1,000 forcibly displaced by Israeli settlers since Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel" https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/worl ... lence.html) if they want to be taken seriously that the war is against Hamas and not Palestinians. On the other side, I believe that Hamas must release all hostages.

Hamas is evil and must be destroyed and I support whole heartedly Israel's right to defend itself and I support US supplying military aid in the defense of Israel's border. However, I can't defend war crimes and I think US is making a huge mistake if it supplies any kind of support to a country's perpetration of war crimes no matter who or why as it would have far reaching negative global impact making not just Israel less safe but the US as well. I've been listening to way too many members of our military discuss what Netanyahu should/shouldn't do and what he should have/shouldn't have done with the war against Hamas. I'm not saying that they are right and Netanyahu is wrong, I'm just saying that I believe that Israel has other options.

As far as the dramatic increase in attacks, threats, and intimidation against Jews and Muslims, I think it's horrific. Support for Hamas is equally horrific.

I know, the death toll has surpassed an “eye for an eye” for the Hamas attack and I really want to learn more about the accusations of apartheid over the years because no country is perfect. I would strongly disagree with restricting agree humanitarian aid to Gaza.

All of this bothers me and I am all for a diplomatic solution but Hamas isn’t budging. We are coming up on a month and they still haven’t freed those hostages, so I just don’t know what choice choice they have.

For the sake of actually discussing solutions instead of blame, what did your military friends suggest Israel do?

[Momto2boys973]

I’m dying to hear ALL these “other options” Israel has!! We should let them know about all these better options they never thought of! How on earth didn’t they think of all those options?? And coming from people who don’t have the intelligence information Israel or the U.S do, or haven’t dealt with terrorist groups themselves, or they’re not fighting for their very existence, I’m sure those options are way better than what Israel has done.

[SouthernIslander]

It probably has, but not at the extent Hamas claims. Israel isn’t doing it for revenge, she’s doing it because it needs to be done, Israel is fighting for her existence and for the protection of every Jew in the world. So proportionality doesn’t apply.
But Hamas has already been caught inflating casualty numbers during the hospital incident. First they said 500, at some point suggested 900 and what do you know? The hospital itself wasn’t hit, it was a parking lot, it wasn’t an Israeli air strike, it was a PIJ homemade rocket and hundreds of people didn’t die, maybe just about 20.
And so curious how the death toll rises by a thousand each day. Even within the same day! And goes up and down! 5,000 then 6,000 then 7000, then back to 6,000, now 8000. I predict tomorrow it’ll be 9000. Maybe they’ll get ambitions and call an even number and go for 10000.
Even Biden claimed he had no trust in those numbers. And what did Hamas do next? Publish a list of “names” of about 6,000 victims

https://kion546.com/news/2023/10/28/pa ... %20killed.

Let’s not forget that Hamas is a terrorist dictatorship. Every time you read “palestinian officials”, it’s Hamas. Each time the information comes from the “ministry of…”, it’s Hamas. And they’re liars and masters at PR. Here’s how low they go.

[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

So they’re not above throwing dramatic numbers out of their asses and making up a list of names. Take everything that comes from them with a huge mountain of salt. I mean, second video… even the grieving mother is no Meryl Streep. And the third… a victim of an “Israeli airstrike”? He looks pretty unharmed and clean for someone who has been bombed in a place that supposedly has no water… and aren’t they’re supposed to not have electricity and internet? How were these videos taken and distributed then?
Besides, they have shot people trying to evacuate, they’re also blaming Israel for those deaths.

[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

Ultimately, every single death is on their hands. Every.Single.One

It is a cluster, that's for sure. I believe we would be looking at a very different scenario today if Israel had heeded warnings from their allies regarding their response immediately following the terrorist attack when they had overwhelming support from all of the west and even some Arab countries. 8000 dead, 2000 missing, and 20,000 injured Palestinian civilians (mainly women and children) has created a situation where Israel has lost and continues to lose support so I don't think they are safer now then they were on October 8th but at the same time, it's hard to see a viable way for them to get that support back.

I always think that diplomacy is a better option that battle but admittedly, I'm biased about that. Certainly Blinken has been working double time with some successes but without at least a temporary ceasefire and a dramatic increase in humanitarian aid reaching Palestinians in Gaza, I don't think we'll see the end of any movement diplomatically. I also think that Israel must stop settlers violence against Palestinians ("More than 100 Palestinians have been killed, more than 2,000 injured and nearly 1,000 forcibly displaced by Israeli settlers since Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel" https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/worl ... lence.html) if they want to be taken seriously that the war is against Hamas and not Palestinians. On the other side, I believe that Hamas must release all hostages.

Hamas is evil and must be destroyed and I support whole heartedly Israel's right to defend itself and I support US supplying military aid in the defense of Israel's border. However, I can't defend war crimes and I think US is making a huge mistake if it supplies any kind of support to a country's perpetration of war crimes no matter who or why as it would have far reaching negative global impact making not just Israel less safe but the US as well. I've been listening to way too many members of our military discuss what Netanyahu should/shouldn't do and what he should have/shouldn't have done with the war against Hamas. I'm not saying that they are right and Netanyahu is wrong, I'm just saying that I believe that Israel has other options.

As far as the dramatic increase in attacks, threats, and intimidation against Jews and Muslims, I think it's horrific. Support for Hamas is equally horrific.

I know, the death toll has surpassed an “eye for an eye” for the Hamas attack and I really want to learn more about the accusations of apartheid over the years because no country is perfect. I would strongly disagree with restricting agree humanitarian aid to Gaza.

All of this bothers me and I am all for a diplomatic solution but Hamas isn’t budging. We are coming up on a month and they still haven’t freed those hostages, so I just don’t know what choice choice they have.

For the sake of actually discussing solutions instead of blame, what did your military friends suggest Israel do?

I’m not passing judgement on Israel’s exact numbers or getting revenge for the attack (even if that was their intent). But I think it’s reasonable to say that Palestine has had more casualties then the Hamas attack, even if it’s Hamas’ fault for putting their people in this position because they should have freed those hostages weeks ago.