Socialism

[Momto2boys973]

The military threats to Canada are also the fraction of a cost of those to America.

Imagine a work party, everyone brings a dish to the potluck. 1, 2, maybe 3 people forget. Not a big deal, there's still enough food to go around right? everyone gets a little less, but there's enough to survive right because you have enough people who did their part and brought something.

Now imagine all of the employees from surrounding business show up bring nothing but help themselves to everyone else's dishes, you quickly run out of food.

this is what would happen with socialism + open borders.

BERNIE KNOWS THIS, HE SAID IT 5 YEARS AGO!!!

That is exactly what happens. The Canadian welfare system is very good, making Canada a wonderful place to live for free if you are coming from a country in destitute, dirt poverty. While I could not live on welfare, to people coming from say Syria or Somalia, on the Canadian welfare system they live better than they could dream to in their home countries.

While I support immigration, and I think to a point we have a moral and ethical responsibility to take in refugees, we need to put limits and better screening for those who wish to enter. On the domestic side, when a family with no income and five kids can get up to $3,000 per month in cash, plus another $1,000 to $2,000 in benefits, free healthcare and an entire bunch of other benefits, some just decide not to work. I actually don't blame them!

Who pays for all of this? Us tax payers. Canada is only slightly socialist where many working people pay over 50% of their earned incomes in various taxes. That is what a socialist orientated system causes.

We have the same system. People here are always bitching about paying for food stamps, paying for welfare, etc. No different. Canada just has more money because their military budget is a fraction of what the US is.

And a lot of those Syrians and others wouldn't have dreamed living in a snow covered country. They would still be in Syria if it was a peaceful place.

[Della]

Imagine a work party, everyone brings a dish to the potluck. 1, 2, maybe 3 people forget. Not a big deal, there's still enough food to go around right? everyone gets a little less, but there's enough to survive right because you have enough people who did their part and brought something.

Now imagine all of the employees from surrounding business show up bring nothing but help themselves to everyone else's dishes, you quickly run out of food.

this is what would happen with socialism + open borders.

BERNIE KNOWS THIS, HE SAID IT 5 YEARS AGO!!!

That is exactly what happens. The Canadian welfare system is very good, making Canada a wonderful place to live for free if you are coming from a country in destitute, dirt poverty. While I could not live on welfare, to people coming from say Syria or Somalia, on the Canadian welfare system they live better than they could dream to in their home countries.

While I support immigration, and I think to a point we have a moral and ethical responsibility to take in refugees, we need to put limits and better screening for those who wish to enter. On the domestic side, when a family with no income and five kids can get up to $3,000 per month in cash, plus another $1,000 to $2,000 in benefits, free healthcare and an entire bunch of other benefits, some just decide not to work. I actually don't blame them!

Who pays for all of this? Us tax payers. Canada is only slightly socialist where many working people pay over 50% of their earned incomes in various taxes. That is what a socialist orientated system causes.

We have the same system. People here are always bitching about paying for food stamps, paying for welfare, etc. No different. Canada just has more money because their military budget is a fraction of what the US is.

And a lot of those Syrians and others wouldn't have dreamed living in a snow covered country. They would still be in Syria if it was a peaceful place.

Wouldn't have dreamed of living in a snow covered country? You know Syrians aren't unfamiliar with snow? It snows in Syria, Lemons.

[Lemons]

That is exactly what happens. The Canadian welfare system is very good, making Canada a wonderful place to live for free if you are coming from a country in destitute, dirt poverty. While I could not live on welfare, to people coming from say Syria or Somalia, on the Canadian welfare system they live better than they could dream to in their home countries.

While I support immigration, and I think to a point we have a moral and ethical responsibility to take in refugees, we need to put limits and better screening for those who wish to enter. On the domestic side, when a family with no income and five kids can get up to $3,000 per month in cash, plus another $1,000 to $2,000 in benefits, free healthcare and an entire bunch of other benefits, some just decide not to work. I actually don't blame them!

Who pays for all of this? Us tax payers. Canada is only slightly socialist where many working people pay over 50% of their earned incomes in various taxes. That is what a socialist orientated system causes.

We have the same system. People here are always bitching about paying for food stamps, paying for welfare, etc. No different. Canada just has more money because their military budget is a fraction of what the US is.

And a lot of those Syrians and others wouldn't have dreamed living in a snow covered country. They would still be in Syria if it was a peaceful place.

Wouldn't have dreamed of living in a snow covered country? You know Syrians aren't unfamiliar with snow? It snows in Syria, Lemons.

You know what I mean. I understand people are literally freezing to death right now because of the Syrian dictator. But not even remotely comparable to Canada's 9 month winters. Refugees don't plan on leaving their country for a foreign one.

[Lemons]

Because Canada isn't a military aggression into everyone's business. Canada is lucky that way.

The military threats to Canada are also the fraction of a cost of those to America.

That is exactly what happens. The Canadian welfare system is very good, making Canada a wonderful place to live for free if you are coming from a country in destitute, dirt poverty. While I could not live on welfare, to people coming from say Syria or Somalia, on the Canadian welfare system they live better than they could dream to in their home countries.

While I support immigration, and I think to a point we have a moral and ethical responsibility to take in refugees, we need to put limits and better screening for those who wish to enter. On the domestic side, when a family with no income and five kids can get up to $3,000 per month in cash, plus another $1,000 to $2,000 in benefits, free healthcare and an entire bunch of other benefits, some just decide not to work. I actually don't blame them!

Who pays for all of this? Us tax payers. Canada is only slightly socialist where many working people pay over 50% of their earned incomes in various taxes. That is what a socialist orientated system causes.

We have the same system. People here are always bitching about paying for food stamps, paying for welfare, etc. No different. Canada just has more money because their military budget is a fraction of what the US is.

And a lot of those Syrians and others wouldn't have dreamed living in a snow covered country. They would still be in Syria if it was a peaceful place.

[Lemons]

When I was in Florida about two or so weeks ago, the prices were much the same as here, including gas. When I was discussing the idea of a state-run medicare system with a resident there, I was curious what was left to tax for it. There is already income tax, similar to ours; taxes on the gas are much the same, but ours include highways for the most part, where in Florida there are tolls everywhere; and property taxes are high there too.

No state run Medicare, but it does have a Medicaid program although the state didn't expand it. There's no state income tax in Florida. The fuel taxes are $.42/gal state and $.184/gal federal (with some localities charging an additional $.12/gal). Around 60% of the federal taxes are spent on highways (good grief, the road construction going on is never ending!). Toll roads are mostly in the lower half of the state, although we did recently wind up with one in NE FL. The state base sales tax is 6% with some counties/municipalities adding up to 2.5% by referendum. My property taxes are $2300/year for almost 2 acres and a 4/2.

Were you in Central or South Florida?

We were in Orlando. I know Florida doesn't have a state fun medicare program like Canada, but we were just discussing the idea to see what some local residents thought about it. Florida pays income tax through their property taxes if I was understanding correctly. Sales tax was 7% on my receipts. Some gas stations we passed had prices about $2.49 to $2.79 per gallon.

We pay income tax at a rate of about 33%, plus our property taxes are about $6,800 per year on our medium sized, suburban home. Our health services and sales taxes are 13% on most things besides food. There are other taxes too such as carbon tax, land transfer tax and other regulatory charges and taxes.

Income taxes are similar here. Lower incomes pay a lower percentage and higher incomes. Rates are 20% to 37% depending on income. Our property taxes vary from state to state and are typically used for public schools, safety, etc. Sales taxes vary from state to state. And we have plenty of hidden taxes that are called "fees".

[Della]

We have the same system. People here are always bitching about paying for food stamps, paying for welfare, etc. No different. Canada just has more money because their military budget is a fraction of what the US is.

And a lot of those Syrians and others wouldn't have dreamed living in a snow covered country. They would still be in Syria if it was a peaceful place.

Wouldn't have dreamed of living in a snow covered country? You know Syrians aren't unfamiliar with snow? It snows in Syria, Lemons.

You know what I mean. I understand people are literally freezing to death right now because of the Syrian dictator. But not even remotely comparable to Canada's 9 month winters. Refugees don't plan on leaving their country for a foreign one.

I've only been to Canada once. Crossed over from Detroit. It has winters that last 9 months?

[Momto2boys973]

It’s not luck, it’s just the way the world has been shaped throughout history. Israel also needs to invest a lot in its military because of the many threats. It may suck, but they can’t neglect it. Neither can America. You really can’t expect America to diminish their national and international security budget to give everyone free health care and education.
Not to mention that the population of Canada is about 35 million people. The population of the U.S is ten times that. You can’t really compare having to provide proper and free healthcare to 35 million people to doing it to 350 million people.

And you’ve really can’t call America the “aggressor”. After all, in the 2 biggest wars of modern times, America didn’t even get involved until pretty late in the conflict. And that contributed to its standing as a strong army, because when America finally went full in, the armies of the rival countries were tired, diminished and apathetic.
It was the aftermath of WWII and the continuing threat of communism that resulted in America needing to prioritize military spending. Since then constant threats have made it necessary. It’s not because the U.S is out there picking fights.

Because Canada isn't a military aggression into everyone's business. Canada is lucky that way.

The military threats to Canada are also the fraction of a cost of those to America.

We have the same system. People here are always bitching about paying for food stamps, paying for welfare, etc. No different. Canada just has more money because their military budget is a fraction of what the US is.

And a lot of those Syrians and others wouldn't have dreamed living in a snow covered country. They would still be in Syria if it was a peaceful place.

[DSamuels]

Thank you for your reply. It’s something I’ve been curious about for a while.

So many are in the work to survive category. Aside from my concerns with what could happen if Sanders implements his end goal plan and the uncertainty of the direction future elected officials could take it, I have concerns over how it would effect our economy as well as our overall morale. So many already work to survive. It’s seen more common in lower income brackets. There’s absolutely no way to implement such a level of change without something significantly raising taxes and there’s always a trickle down effect. I am concerned that more and more will end up feeling they are just working to survive. We, US, do a disservice by trying to compare the positive outcomes in other countries, such as Nordic countries, when our whole infrastructure, including society and culture, is not similar. It’s like trying to turn an apple into a tomato just because they are both fruits.

I heard an estimate that a national health care system in the U.S. similar to Canada's would cost in the area of three trillion dollars, or about $8,000 or so per citizen per year. Very similar to what many Americans pay to HMOs and that middle class Canadians pay in health care taxes now.

I was in Florida two weeks ago and talking to some there about the cost of living. Florida is very expensive to live in and quite taxed for an American state. Even the price of gas is not much less than in Canada. So the question is, what will the government tax to support a national health care system?

For anyone's information, Canada does NOT have a national medicare system; it is provincially (state) run and regionally controlled.

$8000 per citizen per year? How's that? I have never heard of anyone paying $32000 a year for insurance (especially an HMO) for their family of four.

Question is, what part of Florida were you visiting.

If you add our monthly premium and deductible together before coverage kicked in our old coverage was not that far off that price. Doctor visits had a copay, cancer screenings were covered. 100%, everything else came out of our pocket until the deductible was met.

Premium $700 a month for $8,400 a year
Deductible. $9,200 a year

Total $17,600 for 2

[Lemons]

America and Israel are not comparable. We aren’t surrounded by enemies like they are.

And yes, America can have universal healthcare if it was a priority . Of course it could happen.

quote=Momto2boys973 post_id=682244 time=1582831992 user_id=489]
It’s not luck, it’s just the way the world has been shaped throughout history. Israel also needs to invest a lot in its military because of the many threats. It may suck, but they can’t neglect it. Neither can America. You really can’t expect America to diminish their national and international security budget to give everyone free health care and education.
Not to mention that the population of Canada is about 35 million people. The population of the U.S is ten times that. You can’t really compare having to provide proper and free healthcare to 35 million people to doing it to 350 million people.

And you’ve really can’t call America the “aggressor”. After all, in the 2 biggest wars of modern times, America didn’t even get involved until pretty late in the conflict. And that contributed to its standing as a strong army, because when America finally went full in, the armies of the rival countries were tired, diminished and apathetic.
It was the aftermath of WWII and the continuing threat of communism that resulted in America needing to prioritize military spending. Since then constant threats have made it necessary. It’s not because the U.S is out there picking fights.

Because Canada isn't a military aggression into everyone's business. Canada is lucky that way.

The military threats to Canada are also the fraction of a cost of those to America.

[/quote]

[Linda_Runs]

We have the same system. People here are always bitching about paying for food stamps, paying for welfare, etc. No different. Canada just has more money because their military budget is a fraction of what the US is.

And a lot of those Syrians and others wouldn't have dreamed living in a snow covered country. They would still be in Syria if it was a peaceful place.

Wouldn't have dreamed of living in a snow covered country? You know Syrians aren't unfamiliar with snow? It snows in Syria, Lemons.

You know what I mean. I understand people are literally freezing to death right now because of the Syrian dictator. But not even remotely comparable to Canada's 9 month winters. Refugees don't plan on leaving their country for a foreign one.

What nine month winters?

Canada has the same weather as the 13 states that it shares a border with. Where I am, we only really get snow from December to March and in the summer, temperatures can hit 100F. Our central A/C is on from June through September.