Socialism

[Pjmm]

You’re lucky your country puts your taxes into healthcare not your military.

The best healthcare system for our country would be a version of obamacare. Most people keep their insurance through their employers. Other random people would be pooled together to get a group rate. If someone can’t afford the premiums they would get a subsidy.

Republicans had to get hateful thoughts and freak out because it was a requirement. Now it looks like younger voters might decide Medicare for all is,the way to go. Most of our lawmakers are so old they’re already on Medicare.

Employer insurance is all well and good until your small businessman has to get crap insurance for his employees because he doesn't have 25 or 50 employees and so what he can afford is breaking his back. Even our school district the teachers pay a lot for the crap insurance they get. Employer given insurance isn't going to work until the health insurances can lower rates. Which probably won't happen until the drug companies do. And the bottom feeder lawyers stop advertising malpractice on daytime TV.

Everyone following this topic should read this reply you posted above.

I don't own a business but I work for a small business owner. I'm sure what he provides for us is not cheap. I do all my annual doctors visits now because I'm afraid to get sick. Really nothing is free so the question to ask is what's best? Have people kill themselves meeting deductibles and health care providers lose their minds dealing with insurance companies? Or do something where hopefully everyone pays on a sliding scale.

Idk about medical but I can speak for prosthetics- artificial limb makers. They've been struggling with Medicare audits years after being paid. Other insurances audit too and in some instances retract payments. If doctors don't have the proper information in their notes when they prescribe a device the prosthetist gets screwed. I see friends who are doctors or nurse practitioners on vacation who spend much of it catching up on the charting that going electronic was supposed to fix. And I don't think it's for their benefit. I think it's so insurances can decide if treatment is justified or not. This has been a problem for a long time and it's only getting worse. I'm not sure what Sanders wants to do is the answer but something has to change. We the patients and the doctors are the ones suffering.

[Linda_Runs]

Employer insurance is all well and good until your small businessman has to get crap insurance for his employees because he doesn't have 25 or 50 employees and so what he can afford is breaking his back. Even our school district the teachers pay a lot for the crap insurance they get. Employer given insurance isn't going to work until the health insurances can lower rates. Which probably won't happen until the drug companies do. And the bottom feeder lawyers stop advertising malpractice on daytime TV.

Everyone following this topic should read this reply you posted above.

I don't own a business but I work for a small business owner. I'm sure what he provides for us is not cheap. I do all my annual doctors visits now because I'm afraid to get sick. Really nothing is free so the question to ask is what's best? Have people kill themselves meeting deductibles and health care providers lose their minds dealing with insurance companies? Or do something where hopefully everyone pays on a sliding scale.

Idk about medical but I can speak for prosthetics- artificial limb makers. They've been struggling with Medicare audits years after being paid. Other insurances audit too and in some instances retract payments. If doctors don't have the proper information in their notes when they prescribe a device the prosthetist gets screwed. I see friends who are doctors or nurse practitioners on vacation who spend much of it catching up on the charting that going electronic was supposed to fix. And I don't think it's for their benefit. I think it's so insurances can decide if treatment is justified or not. This has been a problem for a long time and it's only getting worse. I'm not sure what Sanders wants to do is the answer but something has to change. We the patients and the doctors are the ones suffering.

Maybe not to the scale you described, but in Canada, medical finance is a huge overhead for medical centers and hospitals. At the end of the day, whether it is a government or private medical finance clerk, they all have the same issues with the medical and drug suppliers, back and forth and then the audits.

[Pjmm]

Everyone following this topic should read this reply you posted above.

I don't own a business but I work for a small business owner. I'm sure what he provides for us is not cheap. I do all my annual doctors visits now because I'm afraid to get sick. Really nothing is free so the question to ask is what's best? Have people kill themselves meeting deductibles and health care providers lose their minds dealing with insurance companies? Or do something where hopefully everyone pays on a sliding scale.

Idk about medical but I can speak for prosthetics- artificial limb makers. They've been struggling with Medicare audits years after being paid. Other insurances audit too and in some instances retract payments. If doctors don't have the proper information in their notes when they prescribe a device the prosthetist gets screwed. I see friends who are doctors or nurse practitioners on vacation who spend much of it catching up on the charting that going electronic was supposed to fix. And I don't think it's for their benefit. I think it's so insurances can decide if treatment is justified or not. This has been a problem for a long time and it's only getting worse. I'm not sure what Sanders wants to do is the answer but something has to change. We the patients and the doctors are the ones suffering.

Maybe not to the scale you described, but in Canada, medical finance is a huge overhead for medical centers and hospitals. At the end of the day, whether it is a government or private medical finance clerk, they all have the same issues with the medical and drug suppliers, back and forth and then the audits.

Well I understand they want to prevent fraud. But insurance companies are for profit. That's just how it is. Maybe if they weren't things would be better. Some non profit system. I'm not sure. In the end no one is going to get free unlimited health care. That financially isn't possible. But better would be nice.

[hotspice58]

This sounds more like capitalism.

That’s usually the way it goes. Socialism works for the very rich or for the poor. It screws the hardworking middle class. Politicians who pander socialism are just saying that they’ll play Robin Hood and take from the “rich” (middle class) and give to the poor. But they’re certainly not about to give up their luxuries and “equalize” society. Bernie advocates “free Medicare for all” but when he needs medical attention, you can be sure he’ll pay top dollar for a top notch one.
Seahorse he thinks all of America should have mediocre health care and mediocre education because he wants those free-for-all, he should live that way himself or shut his pie hole.

No rich politician pandering for votes with socialism is going to give up any of their money or property. Socialism will apply to everyone but them.

[Momto2boys973]

No, not really. It’s actually the complete opposite of capitalism.
Capitalism says “you work, you earn, that money belongs to you and you can afford the privileges that gives you”. Bernie says “you work, you earn! I’ll take it and give it to those who don’t so that no one (but himself) has any privileges because that money belongs to all”.

This sounds more like capitalism.

That’s usually the way it goes. Socialism works for the very rich or for the poor. It screws the hardworking middle class. Politicians who pander socialism are just saying that they’ll play Robin Hood and take from the “rich” (middle class) and give to the poor. But they’re certainly not about to give up their luxuries and “equalize” society. Bernie advocates “free Medicare for all” but when he needs medical attention, you can be sure he’ll pay top dollar for a top notch one.
Seahorse he thinks all of America should have mediocre health care and mediocre education because he wants those free-for-all, he should live that way himself or shut his pie hole.

No rich politician pandering for votes with socialism is going to give up any of their money or property. Socialism will apply to everyone but them.

[Deleted User 1242]

Anyone calling themselves an Independent and still not sure who to vote for , you're most likely a democrat : /

[Della]

That is exactly what happens. The Canadian welfare system is very good, making Canada a wonderful place to live for free if you are coming from a country in destitute, dirt poverty. While I could not live on welfare, to people coming from say Syria or Somalia, on the Canadian welfare system they live better than they could dream to in their home countries.

While I support immigration, and I think to a point we have a moral and ethical responsibility to take in refugees, we need to put limits and better screening for those who wish to enter. On the domestic side, when a family with no income and five kids can get up to $3,000 per month in cash, plus another $1,000 to $2,000 in benefits, free healthcare and an entire bunch of other benefits, some just decide not to work. I actually don't blame them!

Who pays for all of this? Us tax payers. Canada is only slightly socialist where many working people pay over 50% of their earned incomes in various taxes. That is what a socialist orientated system causes.

50% is really high imo. Do you think this effects morale of people?

When all things considered, it is about 50%. Our personal income tax is about 33%, plus there are a myriad of other taxes such as health services tax, fuel tax, carbon tax, property tax, capital gains tax, goods and services tax and so on.

So to answer your question, Canadian are tired of being taxed to death with more and more tax initiatives coming up every year.

The taxes really don't sound much different from the US.

[Deleted User 1242]

Question for those in America that want to go Socialist...........

Which part are you looking forward to ? Eating your own dogs and animals like in Venezuela ? Being shot for criticizing the government like in Cuba ? Or economy completely tanking ?

[Della]

When all things considered, it is about 50%. Our personal income tax is about 33%, plus there are a myriad of other taxes such as health services tax, fuel tax, carbon tax, property tax, capital gains tax, goods and services tax and so on.

So to answer your question, Canadian are tired of being taxed to death with more and more tax initiatives coming up every year.

Thank you for your reply. It’s something I’ve been curious about for a while.

So many are in the work to survive category. Aside from my concerns with what could happen if Sanders implements his end goal plan and the uncertainty of the direction future elected officials could take it, I have concerns over how it would effect our economy as well as our overall morale. So many already work to survive. It’s seen more common in lower income brackets. There’s absolutely no way to implement such a level of change without something significantly raising taxes and there’s always a trickle down effect. I am concerned that more and more will end up feeling they are just working to survive. We, US, do a disservice by trying to compare the positive outcomes in other countries, such as Nordic countries, when our whole infrastructure, including society and culture, is not similar. It’s like trying to turn an apple into a tomato just because they are both fruits.

I heard an estimate that a national health care system in the U.S. similar to Canada's would cost in the area of three trillion dollars, or about $8,000 or so per citizen per year. Very similar to what many Americans pay to HMOs and that middle class Canadians pay in health care taxes now.

I was in Florida two weeks ago and talking to some there about the cost of living. Florida is very expensive to live in and quite taxed for an American state. Even the price of gas is not much less than in Canada. So the question is, what will the government tax to support a national health care system?

For anyone's information, Canada does NOT have a national medicare system; it is provincially (state) run and regionally controlled.

$8000 per citizen per year? How's that? I have never heard of anyone paying $32000 a year for insurance (especially an HMO) for their family of four.

Question is, what part of Florida were you visiting.

[Valentina327]

Employer insurance is all well and good until your small businessman has to get crap insurance for his employees because he doesn't have 25 or 50 employees and so what he can afford is breaking his back. Even our school district the teachers pay a lot for the crap insurance they get. Employer given insurance isn't going to work until the health insurances can lower rates. Which probably won't happen until the drug companies do. And the bottom feeder lawyers stop advertising malpractice on daytime TV.

Everyone following this topic should read this reply you posted above.

I don't own a business but I work for a small business owner. I'm sure what he provides for us is not cheap. I do all my annual doctors visits now because I'm afraid to get sick. Really nothing is free so the question to ask is what's best? Have people kill themselves meeting deductibles and health care providers lose their minds dealing with insurance companies? Or do something where hopefully everyone pays on a sliding scale.

Idk about medical but I can speak for prosthetics- artificial limb makers. They've been struggling with Medicare audits years after being paid. Other insurances audit too and in some instances retract payments. If doctors don't have the proper information in their notes when they prescribe a device the prosthetist gets screwed. I see friends who are doctors or nurse practitioners on vacation who spend much of it catching up on the charting that going electronic was supposed to fix. And I don't think it's for their benefit. I think it's so insurances can decide if treatment is justified or not. This has been a problem for a long time and it's only getting worse. I'm not sure what Sanders wants to do is the answer but something has to change. We the patients and the doctors are the ones suffering.

Obama care is the worst thing that ever happened to this country's medical care. It continues to get worse each year both with plan selection and premium. I was still working for one of the top carriers when this insanity first started the phased roll out. The documentation that was demanded under this wonderful legacy of Barry's was insanely, unduly burdensome.

Most carriers have been driven out of business, at least where I am. The choices left are bad and worse. Some specialties there is one physician in the network for a 100 miles or more. My brother in law pays about $1900 a month for him, my sister and 2 kids. And it's a $5,000 deductible plan per person. The burden of Obama care is literally crushing. It's so convoluted and so jacked up there is no way it can ever be unwound without further damaging available care.

The screeching about $5B for the wall? That's what Barry spent on the website that people were supposed to use to go sign up on that never worked. Funny, isn't it? I just ran across that somewhere a couple of days ago. Think of everything that $5B could have paid for - could have maybe supplemented some prescriptions so seniors don't fall in the doughnut hole on Medicare, no?

Imagine these imbeciles want to lord over managing all healthcare for all citizens. They can't deal with what they're actually SUPPOSED to be dealing with like the DMV, the IRS, etc. I absolutely do not want some bureaucrat deciding whether or not I need a surgery or whether or not my life is worth saving as you see with "socialised medicine". That would be the absolute worst move on earth. LindaRuns in Canada has been very open on here about what it's like. We can also ask the parents of that little boy Alfie in the UK where the government decided he wasn't worth trying to save, then BLOCKED his parents from taking him to Italy where doctors were willing to try to help him. BLOCKED them and it wouldn't have cost the UK for his treatments. The doctor in Italy took pity of them. But the UK decided. It's a frightening prospect to have our care rationed even more than it is now.