Lemons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:04 pm
KnotaDinghy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:33 pm
Lemons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:43 pm
Probably. Because I can't figure out why anyone would be trying to make excuses for why all these people are lying and being convicted. The Russian spy really isn't a spy, maybe she was forced to lie and plead guilty. Flynn was ambushed by the big mean FBI who didn't tell him he wasn't supposed to lie and there's this thing called attorneys that he could have had. Cohen lied to get a better deal and he's such a genius that he pulled it off.
And I haven't seen any excuses yet for Trump's stealing from charity but I'm sure it's just as convoluted.
You don't see an embarrassing pattern from Trump's base who just won't give it up and admit these people were up to no good? That's it's not everyone else? It's them.
I was teasing Billie on an inside joke that she understood. No one else was meant to understand our comments.
But it had nothing to do with Flynn. I wasn't making excuses for him. You asked who didn't believe lied - I provided you two examples - one is most definitely NOT part of Trump's base.
The issue is, people have clouded judgment and biases. You, HATE, the President and want to see the worst in him, always. There is nothing he or anyone around him could do that you would even remotely consider positive or at least not criminal.
I still want to see all the facts. Not just some and conclude one way or the other.
Flynn. We know the FBI had the conversation transcribed and they met with Flynn advising him he didn't need an attorney. Comey has stated clearly he sent them to do this to entrap Flynn. The agents asked Flynn questions and reviewed those answers against the transcript and did not believe he lied. Then based upon Flynn himself saying that he mischaracterized the conversation which would be considered lying, he was subsequently fired. The questions should be - why did the agents not think he was lying? And what made Flynn change his mind and think he was lying? And why did the agents write a new set of notes months later?
Once we know those answers, I'll make up my mind if I think he lied.
What you're doing is twisting a very simple case into something complicated. Flynn lied about his meeting with the Russian Ambassador. It can't get any simpler.
Here's the timeline of Flynn's actions if you are interested in factual information and not speculation:
Dec. 28
President Barack Obama signs an
executive order announcing sanctions
against Russia for trying to interfere with
the 2016 presidential election. The
executive order takes effect the next day.
Dec. 28
Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian
ambassador, contacts Michael T. Flynn.
Dec. 29
Mr. Flynn calls a senior transition
official to talk about what to say to
Mr. Kislyak. They also discuss that
“members of the presidential transition
team” at Mar-a-Lago “did not want
Russia to escalate the situation.”
Dec. 29
Immediately after that call, Mr.
Flynn calls Mr. Kislyak and asks that
Russia not escalate the situation.
Dec. 29
Shortly after his call with Mr.
Kislyak, Mr. Flynn calls the transition
official to report on his conversation
with the Russian ambassador.
Dec. 30
President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia
announces he will not take retaliatory
measures in response to the sanctions.
Dec. 30
Mr. Trump praises Mr. Putin’s response on
Twitter: “I always knew he was very smart!”
Dec. 31
Mr. Kislyak calls Mr. Flynn and tells
him that, in response to Mr. Flynn’s
request, Russia chose not to retaliate.
Dec. 31
Mr. Flynn tells senior members of the
transition team what Mr. Kislyak told him.
Jan. 12
News organizations first report on a
call between Mr. Flynn and Mr. Kislyak.
Jan. 13
In a conference call with reporters, Sean
Spicer confirms a phone conversation
between Mr. Flynn and Mr. Kislyak, saying
it had “centered around the logistics” and
had “never touched on the sanctions.”
Jan. 14
Mr. Flynn informs Vice President
Mike Pence that he did not discuss
U.S. sanctions against Russia
with Mr. Kislyak in the phone call.
Jan. 15
In several televised interviews, Mr.
Pence states that Mr. Flynn and Mr.
Kislyak did not discuss sanctions.
Jan. 15
In an interview on NBC, Mr. Trump’s
chief of staff, Reince Priebus, also states
that Mr. Flynn and Mr. Kislyak did not
discuss U.S. sanctions against Russia.
Jan. 22
Mr. Flynn, speaking with Mr. Spicer, denies
discussing the sanctions with Mr. Kislyak.
Jan. 23
Asked at a press briefing about
Mr. Flynn’s phone call, Mr. Spicer
again states that U.S. sanctions
against Russia were not discussed.
Jan. 24
F.B.I. agents interview Mr. Flynn about his
conversations with Mr. Kislyak. He says he
did not ask Mr. Kislyak to refrain from
responding to the sanctions. He also says
he did not remember the conversation in
which Mr. Kislyak said Russia moderated its
response as a result of Mr. Flynn’s request.
Jan. 26
The Justice Department notifies the
White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn
II, that Mr. Flynn had not been truthful
about his interactions with Mr. Kislyak
and that he could be at risk for being
blackmailed by Russian intelligence.
Mr. McGahn then briefs Mr. Trump.
Jan. 28
Mr. Trump, with Mr. Flynn
present, conducts an hourlong
telephone call with Mr. Putin.
Feb. 8
In an interview with The Washington
Post, Mr. Flynn denies discussing
sanctions with Mr. Kislyak.
Feb. 9
The Washington Post and The New
York Times report that Mr. Flynn
discussed American sanctions against
Russia with Mr. Kislyak, contradicting
previous statements about the phone call.
Feb. 9
Mr. Flynn, through a spokesman,
tells The Washington Post that
“while he had no recollection of
discussing sanctions, he couldn’t be
certain that the topic never came up.”
Feb. 10
Aboard Air Force One, Mr. Trump says
he hasn't seen new reports about Mr.
Flynn's conversations with Mr. Kislyak.
Feb. 13, during the day
Kellyanne Conway, a counselor to the
president, says that Mr. Flynn misled
Mr. Pence about the phone call, but that
Mr. Flynn still “enjoys the full confidence
of the president.” Mr. Spicer says the
president is “evaluating the situation.”
Feb. 13, evening
Mr. Flynn resigns as
national security adviser.
Dec. 1
Mr. Flynn pleads guilty to lying to the F.B.I.
about his conversations with Mr. Kislyak.
