Arizona Supreme Court rules a near-total abortion ban from 1864 is enforceable

[Slimshandy]

It would be just as illegal for a "traditional healer" to end a pregnancy as it would be for a medical doctor, if abortion is illegal where they practice.

f**k the laws.

If any laws are created that take away a woman’s autonomy over her own body, every woman in the entire country should stand up against them.

I’ll help anyone that wants an abortion get one. If they want to meet with a traditional healer, I’ll drive them. If they want the Abortion pill, I’ll help them get it. If they want a doctor to perform an abortion, I’ll drive them anywhere in the country or Canada, or Mexico to get it…I’ll help them move to a different state if the feel too scared to go home.

You'll do absolutely anything to help a woman, except the one thing that would really help - voting to keep the Republicans who want this out of office.

Please reconsider enabling a Trump win, and then I'll believe you think every woman in the entire country should stand up against them.

What are you talking about? I have never voted for trump, I am never going to vote for trump…

I don’t even think I’ve ever voted for a Republican…

You just all think I’m right wing because I’m pro-women having guns to protect themselves, and I’m anti racism in all form.

[SallyMae]

f**k the laws.

If any laws are created that take away a woman’s autonomy over her own body, every woman in the entire country should stand up against them.

I’ll help anyone that wants an abortion get one. If they want to meet with a traditional healer, I’ll drive them. If they want the Abortion pill, I’ll help them get it. If they want a doctor to perform an abortion, I’ll drive them anywhere in the country or Canada, or Mexico to get it…I’ll help them move to a different state if the feel too scared to go home.

You'll do absolutely anything to help a woman, except the one thing that would really help - voting to keep the Republicans who want this out of office.

Please reconsider enabling a Trump win, and then I'll believe you think every woman in the entire country should stand up against them.

What are you talking about? I have never voted for trump, I am never going to vote for trump…

I don’t even think I’ve ever voted for a Republican…

You just all think I’m right wing because I’m pro-women having guns to protect themselves, and I’m anti racism in all form.

Not at all, I know you are not right-wing. I was referring to your oft-stated plans to vote for RFK Jr. If you want Trump to lose, if you want women to have bodily autonomy, that is not going to help.

[Slimshandy]

Women deserve safe options to feed their infants. In times of formula shortage, these options can include consulting with their pediatrician, mid-wife, or doula on appropriate formula free diet, reaching out to LL or other women's organizations (online or in person) to find sources of nutrition, reaching out to your local "mom" group or maternity wing of your local hospital to get connected with other mom's who are breast feeding or formula feeding, reaching out to CHIP or local food banks for options, if your infant is old enough, perhaps weaning early. Googling (ha!) what organizations such as UNICEF recommend when servicing communities that don't have safe formula options, i.e., communities without potable water. IMO, relying on someone's "grandma's recipe" via social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

Women deserve safe options to obtain an abortion whether that is a medical abortion or surgical abortion. Thankfully, there are still many groups in the US that are working to provide that to all women. IMO, relying on herbal recipes posted on social media is dangerous and not a safe option.

I'm not surprised that the above remedies are prolific on social media but I think that's indicative of a larger problem in this country. Where women (and kids and men) are relying on SM to form connections rather than forming connections with members of their community so when in times of need, they look to SM for answers. Unfortunately, SM is rife with dangerous, ill-informed information.

Of course women deserve these options… but they didn’t get them.


Women do deserve safe abortions, but in many places, they can’t get it…


Women deserve a LOT that they are not getting…



Sometimes the most dire of emergencies happen where they either get what they need themselves, or they don’t get it…



That’s the tragic truth.


The one we don’t WANT to be true, but they were true anyways.


Help isn’t always going to come.

Were they refused help or did they not ask? I can't imagine any doctor, doula, or midwife not providing a recipe for a formula alternative. I can't imagine any breast feeding mother refusing to assist another mother who can't find alternate nutrition for their child.

You've mentioned that women need to "go it alone" and I think that's a recipe for disaster. Women (and the men who love them) need to work to support each other.

Doctors and midwives got formula recipes from what worked well enough in the 1950’s before mass marketed formula was available. I am talking about those recipes… when I said “their great grandmothers recipe” I didn’t mean whatever was on Pinterest…I’m sure they did ask their doctor or midwife before using any specific recipe.


I’m not saying they should go it alone, I’m saying that’s the only choice sometimes.


For some women they either had to do it themselves or they would not get what they needed, of course they should have had support from other women or other men, but they didn’t get it.

[Slimshandy]

You'll do absolutely anything to help a woman, except the one thing that would really help - voting to keep the Republicans who want this out of office.

Please reconsider enabling a Trump win, and then I'll believe you think every woman in the entire country should stand up against them.

What are you talking about? I have never voted for trump, I am never going to vote for trump…

I don’t even think I’ve ever voted for a Republican…

You just all think I’m right wing because I’m pro-women having guns to protect themselves, and I’m anti racism in all form.

Not at all, I know you are not right-wing. I was referring to your oft-stated plans to vote for RFK Jr. If you want Trump to lose, if you want women to have bodily autonomy, that is not going to help.

I am going to vote independent because I cannot (in my own personal morals) vote for trump and I’m not going to vote for Biden when I legitimately do not think he is capable of handling the position, and I’m not willing to vote a puppet head into the position… I don’t know who would be the presidential decision maker if I voted for Biden.


Granted, RFK does have some vaccine hesitation which I don’t really care about, and he believes in aliens… which again, I don’t really care about.


He’s the “good enough” candidate in a group of horrible candidates…

[WellPreserved]

Of course women deserve these options… but they didn’t get them.


Women do deserve safe abortions, but in many places, they can’t get it…


Women deserve a LOT that they are not getting…



Sometimes the most dire of emergencies happen where they either get what they need themselves, or they don’t get it…



That’s the tragic truth.


The one we don’t WANT to be true, but they were true anyways.


Help isn’t always going to come.

Were they refused help or did they not ask? I can't imagine any doctor, doula, or midwife not providing a recipe for a formula alternative. I can't imagine any breast feeding mother refusing to assist another mother who can't find alternate nutrition for their child.

You've mentioned that women need to "go it alone" and I think that's a recipe for disaster. Women (and the men who love them) need to work to support each other.

Doctors and midwives got formula recipes from what worked well enough in the 1950’s before mass marketed formula was available. I am talking about those recipes… when I said “their great grandmothers recipe” I didn’t mean whatever was on Pinterest…I’m sure they did ask their doctor or midwife before using any specific recipe.


I’m not saying they should go it alone, I’m saying that’s the only choice sometimes.


For some women they either had to do it themselves or they would not get what they needed, of course they should have had support from other women or other men, but they didn’t get it.

"Those recepies" often don't take into consideration special needs of individual infant such as lactose intolerance, absorption issues, vitamin deficiencies, digestive issues, weight gain problems, etc. They were formulated as a one size fits all and now we know better. I would hope that someone consult with their doctor or midwife before trying their grandmothers or anyone's grandmothers recipe as a formula replacement just like I would hope that someone would consult with their doctor or midwife before attempting an herbal abortion. Unfortunately, that is not always the case as women who are desperate will often fail to look at source of the information and will end up on Amazon, searching for "abortion herbal" and purchase this and not even read the disclaimer on the product that may cause death:

[Slimshandy]

Were they refused help or did they not ask? I can't imagine any doctor, doula, or midwife not providing a recipe for a formula alternative. I can't imagine any breast feeding mother refusing to assist another mother who can't find alternate nutrition for their child.

You've mentioned that women need to "go it alone" and I think that's a recipe for disaster. Women (and the men who love them) need to work to support each other.

Doctors and midwives got formula recipes from what worked well enough in the 1950’s before mass marketed formula was available. I am talking about those recipes… when I said “their great grandmothers recipe” I didn’t mean whatever was on Pinterest…I’m sure they did ask their doctor or midwife before using any specific recipe.


I’m not saying they should go it alone, I’m saying that’s the only choice sometimes.


For some women they either had to do it themselves or they would not get what they needed, of course they should have had support from other women or other men, but they didn’t get it.

"Those recepies" often don't take into consideration special needs of individual infant such as lactose intolerance, absorption issues, vitamin deficiencies, digestive issues, weight gain problems, etc. They were formulated as a one size fits all and now we know better. I would hope that someone consult with their doctor or midwife before trying their grandmothers or anyone's grandmothers recipe as a formula replacement just like I would hope that someone would consult with their doctor or midwife before attempting an herbal abortion. Unfortunately, that is not always the case as women who are desperate will often fail to look at source of the information and will end up on Amazon, searching for "abortion herbal" and purchase this and not even read the disclaimer on the product that may cause death:

I would agree that they should consult with a midwife, and there are a lot of midwives from different countries that have intricate knowledge about herbal abortions…


I never meant women should just google it, I only meant the knowledge is possible.


By all means, they should be asking a traditional medicine specialist.

[SallyMae]

I am going to vote independent because I cannot (in my own personal morals) vote for trump and I’m not going to vote for Biden when I legitimately do not think he is capable of handling the position, and I’m not willing to vote a puppet head into the position… I don’t know who would be the presidential decision maker if I voted for Biden.

Granted, RFK does have some vaccine hesitation which o don’t really care about, and he believes in aliens… which again, I don’t really care about.

He’s the “good enough” candidate in a group of horrible candidates…

But that's not going to help women if Biden loses, is it? At least if he wins, you know the team in charge is pro-choice, pro-equality. If Trump wins, what will happen to women then?

Imagine the backwaters of repression and misery that will occur for women if we let the people who want this legislation get back in charge. Imagine the botched back-alley abortions, the herbal poisonings, the struggling families of eight or nine kids with each one less wanted than the last. Imagine the enforced poverty and vacuity of women who do not have self-determination.

IMO, it's not enough to stand alone and just vow to help women you know break the laws. If you stand with others, you could help so many more women, by stopping these laws from becoming laws, so millions of women won't have to suffer under them at all. THAT would be "every woman in the entire country standing up against them."

Biden and his team ARE doing the job right now, and I don't agree that thumbing your nose at senile Ol' Uncle Joe is worth risking the lives and health and freedom and autonomy of every woman in this country including you and me, your daughters and mine. Please consider the misery and suffering for women the Republicans WILL create if they win. Isn't that worth fighting?

Just something to think about. That's my piece, thanks for reading.

[WellPreserved]

Doctors and midwives got formula recipes from what worked well enough in the 1950’s before mass marketed formula was available. I am talking about those recipes… when I said “their great grandmothers recipe” I didn’t mean whatever was on Pinterest…I’m sure they did ask their doctor or midwife before using any specific recipe.


I’m not saying they should go it alone, I’m saying that’s the only choice sometimes.


For some women they either had to do it themselves or they would not get what they needed, of course they should have had support from other women or other men, but they didn’t get it.

"Those recepies" often don't take into consideration special needs of individual infant such as lactose intolerance, absorption issues, vitamin deficiencies, digestive issues, weight gain problems, etc. They were formulated as a one size fits all and now we know better. I would hope that someone consult with their doctor or midwife before trying their grandmothers or anyone's grandmothers recipe as a formula replacement just like I would hope that someone would consult with their doctor or midwife before attempting an herbal abortion. Unfortunately, that is not always the case as women who are desperate will often fail to look at source of the information and will end up on Amazon, searching for "abortion herbal" and purchase this and not even read the disclaimer on the product that may cause death:

I would agree that they should consult with a midwife, and there are a lot of midwives from different countries that have intricate knowledge about herbal abortions…


I never meant women should just google it, I only meant the knowledge is possible.


By all means, they should be asking a traditional medicine specialist.

Okay, that wasn't apparent from your posts.

I know you think I'm an uninformed "googler" but my knee jerk reaction was based on the two years I spent in Zambia during which time I volunteered with PEPFAR, collecting data on maternal health. As a country with only 1 doctor per 13000ish, people HAVE to rely on traditional medical treatment and despite the centuries of practice, it's pretty abysmal, especially for maternal health. Not all traditional healers are created equal.

Just another "fun" factoid is that like some states in the US, abortion is illegal in Zambia. Women who present at the hospital after a botched abortion, either herbal or surgical, are treated, but they are refused a bed and must remain in a separate room on a cement floor, no matter their condition. The whole abortion debate gets me really riled up.

Let's not become a country where the only options a woman has for an abortion is the traditional healer, the back street, the coat hanger, or falling down the steps. I'm with Sally on this one and while I may think that Biden is a "bobble-head" and am horrified by his policy regarding Gaza, he is the only option right now to literally save women and personally.

[Slimshandy]

I am going to vote independent because I cannot (in my own personal morals) vote for trump and I’m not going to vote for Biden when I legitimately do not think he is capable of handling the position, and I’m not willing to vote a puppet head into the position… I don’t know who would be the presidential decision maker if I voted for Biden.

Granted, RFK does have some vaccine hesitation which o don’t really care about, and he believes in aliens… which again, I don’t really care about.

He’s the “good enough” candidate in a group of horrible candidates…

But that's not going to help women if Biden loses, is it? At least if he wins, you know the team in charge is pro-choice, pro-equality. If Trump wins, what will happen to women then?

Imagine the backwaters of repression and misery that will occur for women if we let the people who want this legislation get back in charge. Imagine the botched back-alley abortions, the herbal poisonings, the struggling families of eight or nine kids with each one less wanted than the last. Imagine the enforced poverty and vacuity of women who do not have self-determination.

IMO, it's not enough to stand alone and just vow to help women you know break the laws. If you stand with others, you could help so many more women, by stopping these laws from becoming laws, so millions of women won't have to suffer under them at all. THAT would be "every woman in the entire country standing up against them."

Biden and his team ARE doing the job right now, and I don't agree that thumbing your nose at senile Ol' Uncle Joe is worth risking the lives and health and freedom and autonomy of every woman in this country including you and me, your daughters and mine. Please consider the misery and suffering for women the Republicans WILL create if they win. Isn't that worth fighting?

Just something to think about. That's my piece, thanks for reading.

Why do you think it’s only Trump or Biden?

If most registered voters are independent, and most people are t happy with either the Republican or Democratic candidate… RFK has a chance.

[MonarchMom]

Arizona Supreme Court has just shut down another effort to repeal the 1864 total ban on abortion. This is where the country is going under GOP rule - archaic ideas and archaic laws. Maybe some voters want to "roll the dice" on JFK Jr., but not me. Health care decisions should be in the hands of women and their medical providers - not legislators and their religious views.


https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/1 ... n-00152865