Planet Fitness gymgoer was arrested after allegedly walking around totally naked in the women's locker room

[WellPreserved]

Yes, he was arrested…after the damage to the women in that locker room was already done. So preventative action is also important because the law isn't going to pay for a rape victim’s therapy bill if the offense triggers them.

I have shared spaces with gay men and transwomen my whole life and always will, but it should not be that easy for a straight man to prey on and traumatize women in spaces that should be safe.

So i understand what you're saying, but I see both sides and the need to compromise.

That's why I'm glad that my state allows one to change their gender on their birth certificate or license if they meet certain criteria. Checking id when joining a gym would be the easiest way to determine one's gender and which locker room they were permitted to use. In the story, the guy booked online as a male. That should have automatically prevented him from entering the women's locker room.

I know that this wouldn't work in states that don't allow someone to change their gender on their ID.

I think it would be rare for a predatory male to go through the legal process of changing one's id just to enter a women's space. We are talking about 1% of the population. I think there is a way to both protect women from predatory men and protect transgender women we just need the will.

I think that is a fantastic compromise and all Americans should have that right IMHO. I agree, I don't think a straight man would go through a legal process to be a perv and it would prevent occurrences like this. I get what y'all are saying too because my problem is straight men who lie...not transwomen or even gay men.

I don’t want to imply that this is a solution to predatory men as men have been invading women’s public and private spaces since forever.

I’d like to see more discussion on why are there so many predatory men who in this country? Why are women not safe in any space including their homes? Why are children unsafe as well? And culturally, what got us to the point where our rights are being taken away and a rapist is running for president?

Women need allies and the LBGTQ community have always been strong allies. We shouldn’t throw that away.

[MonarchMom]

PF is the example, but my comments are still general. When has any women's restroom or locker room or change room been truly 100% safe? Because I don't think they have ever been.

I can remember being followed into the "ladies" room in restaurants and bars in my young adult days. I still always look around when entering to make sure no one is following me.

And we all knew which male teachers you didn't want to detain you after school. We would volunteer for detention so as not to leave our friends alone with them, claiming we had to walk home together. And there was the church youth group leaders who got way too handsy with the teen girls needing to show "fellowship" and "love" to us. The list goes on and on.

[SouthernIslander]

I feel like PF is doing what they can within their purview to keep their spaces safe for all members. They have policy and so far it seems they are upholding their policy. This Miller dude broke policy and he has been arrested for it. What more can we ask for? No place is 100% safe and it's unrealistic to ask any business to try to absolutely guarantee our safety. And it has nothing to do with trans people. Perverts are going to try to do things in locker rooms no matter what. I'm pretty sure there's been many jokes about it in tv and movies long before trans was ever this big deal. And PF can't guarantee that no one will try something in a locker room any more than they can guarantee that no lunatic will bust in the front door and shoot down everyone on the treadmills. There just aren't those guarantees in life. As long as we are all human beings, we will continue to be violent to each other. Nothing will change that.

So I have to wonder, when people talk about these "safe spaces" and especially "safe spaces for women", what does that REALLY mean? Since there are no guarantees in life, what does it really mean and what are we really, realistically, striving for in these spaces?

My comment is general. I'm not bashing PF's policy.

PF is the example, but my comments are still general. When has any women's restroom or locker room or change room been truly 100% safe? Because I don't think they have ever been.

I never said a locker room is 100% safe.

[SallyMae]

No, that is the second step of law enforcement…

The first step is creating the laws that keep people safe.

That’s what women are begging for right now, and having their face spit in for suggesting they need protection to begin with.

What law do you want?

Let’s start with the places women are being legitimately raped…

No “penis owners” in women’s prisons…
They should have their own wing of the men’s prison where only transgendered people are allowed to go so they don’t face increased attacks based on how they identify, but there’s also no chance for a dude who has identified as a woman for the last 30 seconds to be thrown into women’s gen pop.

No, I mean what law do you want that would have prevented this incident at Planet Fitness?

[SouthernIslander]

That's why I'm glad that my state allows one to change their gender on their birth certificate or license if they meet certain criteria. Checking id when joining a gym would be the easiest way to determine one's gender and which locker room they were permitted to use. In the story, the guy booked online as a male. That should have automatically prevented him from entering the women's locker room.

I know that this wouldn't work in states that don't allow someone to change their gender on their ID.

I think it would be rare for a predatory male to go through the legal process of changing one's id just to enter a women's space. We are talking about 1% of the population. I think there is a way to both protect women from predatory men and protect transgender women we just need the will.

I think that is a fantastic compromise and all Americans should have that right IMHO. I agree, I don't think a straight man would go through a legal process to be a perv and it would prevent occurrences like this. I get what y'all are saying too because my problem is straight men who lie...not transwomen or even gay men.

I don’t want to imply that this is a solution to predatory men as men have been invading women’s public and private spaces since forever.

I’d like to see more discussion on why are there so many predatory men who in this country? Why are women not safe in any space including their homes? Why are children unsafe as well? And culturally, what got us to the point where our rights are being taken away and a rapist is running for president?

Women need allies and the LBGTQ community have always been strong allies. We shouldn’t throw that away.

As I told Tracy, I'm not saying locker rooms have always been 100% safe until now or we should throw LBGTQ because I have no problem with sharing spaces with gay men, much less trans women. My beef is with predatory men when it comes to this particular topic.

I can't speak for everyone, but I've had enough bad experiences with men like that to hate them for life, so I personally have plenty conversations about it. I just had a conversation with someone about raising awareness about predatory men in church, so its not a topic that I personally shy away from.

And thank you for understanding where I'm coming from, even if we don't quite agree.

[Slimshandy]

What law do you want?

Let’s start with the places women are being legitimately raped…

No “penis owners” in women’s prisons…
They should have their own wing of the men’s prison where only transgendered people are allowed to go so they don’t face increased attacks based on how they identify, but there’s also no chance for a dude who has identified as a woman for the last 30 seconds to be thrown into women’s gen pop.

No, I mean what law do you want that would have prevented this incident at Planet Fitness?

I’d be a fan of the “ on your ID” rule also…

I agree that most men wouldn’t go that far to get into the rooms with naked women, and that if a trans woman does go that far I think there’s a much better chance that they’re legit.


I’m not anti-trans or anti-gay… at all… in the slightest… I think that there is too much room for predators to take advantage of women right now.

[Slimshandy]

That's why I'm glad that my state allows one to change their gender on their birth certificate or license if they meet certain criteria. Checking id when joining a gym would be the easiest way to determine one's gender and which locker room they were permitted to use. In the story, the guy booked online as a male. That should have automatically prevented him from entering the women's locker room.

I know that this wouldn't work in states that don't allow someone to change their gender on their ID.

I think it would be rare for a predatory male to go through the legal process of changing one's id just to enter a women's space. We are talking about 1% of the population. I think there is a way to both protect women from predatory men and protect transgender women we just need the will.

I think that is a fantastic compromise and all Americans should have that right IMHO. I agree, I don't think a straight man would go through a legal process to be a perv and it would prevent occurrences like this. I get what y'all are saying too because my problem is straight men who lie...not transwomen or even gay men.

I don’t want to imply that this is a solution to predatory men as men have been invading women’s public and private spaces since forever.

I’d like to see more discussion on why are there so many predatory men who in this country? Why are women not safe in any space including their homes? Why are children unsafe as well? And culturally, what got us to the point where our rights are being taken away and a rapist is running for president?

Women need allies and the LBGTQ community have always been strong allies. We shouldn’t throw that away.

Because if 1 in 4 women is raped/attempted rape, it’s probably somewhere close to 1 in 4 men is a rapist.

[WellPreserved]

I think that is a fantastic compromise and all Americans should have that right IMHO. I agree, I don't think a straight man would go through a legal process to be a perv and it would prevent occurrences like this. I get what y'all are saying too because my problem is straight men who lie...not transwomen or even gay men.

I don’t want to imply that this is a solution to predatory men as men have been invading women’s public and private spaces since forever.

I’d like to see more discussion on why are there so many predatory men who in this country? Why are women not safe in any space including their homes? Why are children unsafe as well? And culturally, what got us to the point where our rights are being taken away and a rapist is running for president?

Women need allies and the LBGTQ community have always been strong allies. We shouldn’t throw that away.

Because if 1 in 4 women is raped/attempted rape, it’s probably somewhere close to 1 in 4 men is a rapist.

I don’t believe that to be true. If a man rapes a woman, it’s a pretty sure bet that he has raped or will rape multiple women (or men).

[Slimshandy]

I don’t want to imply that this is a solution to predatory men as men have been invading women’s public and private spaces since forever.

I’d like to see more discussion on why are there so many predatory men who in this country? Why are women not safe in any space including their homes? Why are children unsafe as well? And culturally, what got us to the point where our rights are being taken away and a rapist is running for president?

Women need allies and the LBGTQ community have always been strong allies. We shouldn’t throw that away.

Because if 1 in 4 women is raped/attempted rape, it’s probably somewhere close to 1 in 4 men is a rapist.

I don’t believe that to be true. If a man rapes a woman, it’s a pretty sure bet that he has raped or will rape multiple women (or men).

It’s not a sure bet…



It’s a hope, because we don’t want to believe that the amount of raped women coincides with the amount of rapist men.

[WellPreserved]

Because if 1 in 4 women is raped/attempted rape, it’s probably somewhere close to 1 in 4 men is a rapist.

I don’t believe that to be true. If a man rapes a woman, it’s a pretty sure bet that he has raped or will rape multiple women (or men).

It’s not a sure bet…



It’s a hope, because we don’t want to believe that the amount of raped women coincides with the amount of rapist men.

I have not seen that IRL with regards to my life. I'm very sorry if you've seen that in yours.