Police killed student outside Wisconsin school after reports of someone with a weapon, official says

[Della]

"Police shot and killed a student outside a Wisconsin middle school Wednesday after receiving a report of someone with a weapon, the state’s attorney general said in the first law enforcement briefing on gunshots that sent children fleeing and prompted an hourslong lockdown of local schools.

Authorities had previously said an active shooter who never got inside the building was “neutralized” outside Mount Horeb Middle School. State Attorney General Josh Kaul told reporters Wednesday evening no one else was harmed and that an investigation is ongoing.

“This incident took place outdoors. The subject in this case never gained entry,” he said.

Authorities described the student as a juvenile male but didn’t provide an age or indicate which of the Mount Horeb district’s schools he attended.

Kaul declined to answer several questions about what happened once police responded, including whether the student had fired a weapon, what type of weapon he had, and whether he tried to get inside the school. Authorities said multiple Mount Horeb officers, wearing body cameras, had fired weapons but they did not say how many."

https://apnews.com/article/wisconsin-mo ... 9492625dfd

[Slimshandy]

It’s heartbreaking that he was so young, but if he was armed and about to shoot up the school, I don’t know what other choice the police had if he didn’t drop the weapon when told.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 528044007/

[Della]

It’s heartbreaking that he was so young, but if he was armed and about to shoot up the school, I don’t know what other choice the police had if he didn’t drop the weapon when told.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 528044007/

They're being pretty tight lipped about it. I wish kids would think before they arm themselves.

[SallyMae]

It’s heartbreaking that he was so young, but if he was armed and about to shoot up the school, I don’t know what other choice the police had if he didn’t drop the weapon when told.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 528044007/

I can't believe that in 2024 there is NO technology which can incapacitate a human at a distance without killing him. Rubber bullets? Tranq darts? Entanglers? Blinders, sonic blasts?

There is too much margin for error to allow cops to be executioners. I'm sure there is a tech fix for this. We should be all over it.

[Slimshandy]

It’s heartbreaking that he was so young, but if he was armed and about to shoot up the school, I don’t know what other choice the police had if he didn’t drop the weapon when told.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 528044007/

I can't believe that in 2024 there is NO technology which can incapacitate a human at a distance without killing him. Rubber bullets? Tranq darts? Entanglers? Blinders, sonic blasts?

There is too much margin for error to allow cops to be executioners. I'm sure there is a tech fix for this. We should be all over it.

The problem comes if they don’t work, tranquilizers take up to ten minutes to take effect, rubber bullets only bruise- the shooter can still keep going, blinders only work at night and I’m not sure how a sonic blast would work here…

I’d be all for something that worked, I just don’t think we have much available right now that wouldn’t put the other students at further risk

[Momto2boys973]

What I was going to say. When you have a gun, you have to be ready to shoot to kill, that’s a sad reality. And a reason why I don’t want a gun. Don’t they say the most dangerous animal is an injured animal?

It’s heartbreaking that he was so young, but if he was armed and about to shoot up the school, I don’t know what other choice the police had if he didn’t drop the weapon when told.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 528044007/

I can't believe that in 2024 there is NO technology which can incapacitate a human at a distance without killing him. Rubber bullets? Tranq darts? Entanglers? Blinders, sonic blasts?

There is too much margin for error to allow cops to be executioners. I'm sure there is a tech fix for this. We should be all over it.

The problem comes if they don’t work, tranquilizers take up to ten minutes to take effect, rubber bullets only bruise- the shooter can still keep going, blinders only work at night and I’m not sure how a sonic blast would work here…

I’d be all for something that worked, I just don’t think we have much available right now that wouldn’t put the other students at further risk

[SallyMae]

The problem comes if they don’t work, tranquilizers take up to ten minutes to take effect, rubber bullets only bruise- the shooter can still keep going, blinders only work at night and I’m not sure how a sonic blast would work here…

I’d be all for something that worked, I just don’t think we have much available right now that wouldn’t put the other students at further risk

I have been reading about these "less-lethal" weapons and they are certainly effective in some situations. This could have been one of them. If a suspect is outside, and surrounded, and there are officers with lethal weapons trained on the individual, then officers absolutely *should* attempt to use less-lethal weapons first. Especially in cases like this, where the perp was a juvenile who had not actually harmed anyone yet.

Officers shooting live rounds at the school were putting those other students at further risk too. Bystanders have been killed by stray bullets from a cop's gun. A non-lethal weapon could have ended this without any loss of life, but was it even tried? It would be far less a tragedy if it had been.

I think developing effective non-lethal incapacitation for law enforcement should be a very high priority. I'd like to see an end to this kind of death.

[Momto2boys973]

You said it: in SOME situations and this COULD HAVE BEEN one of them, but if you can’t be sure, you can make a much bigger tragedy. The kid isn’t incapacitated by the non lethal weapon, he can easily take down 2, 3, 4 cops amidst the chaos. Situations like these you have to end ASAP, before the person becomes more dangerous and violent.
I don’t remember where I saw this, but I heard that there’s nothing more dangerous than an armed person not willing to shoot to kill. Dangerous for the armed person, BTW. That nanosecond hesitation may cost them their lives.
It would be nice to have non lethal methods, but they would have to be 100% effective and completely incapacitate the person, like making them completely unconscious. And that’s not a simple thing to do and could leave lasting sequels.

The problem comes if they don’t work, tranquilizers take up to ten minutes to take effect, rubber bullets only bruise- the shooter can still keep going, blinders only work at night and I’m not sure how a sonic blast would work here…

I’d be all for something that worked, I just don’t think we have much available right now that wouldn’t put the other students at further risk

I have been reading about these "less-lethal" weapons and they are certainly effective in some situations. This could have been one of them. If a suspect is outside, and surrounded, and there are officers with lethal weapons trained on the individual, then officers absolutely *should* attempt to use less-lethal weapons first. Especially in cases like this, where the perp was a juvenile who had not actually harmed anyone yet.

Officers shooting live rounds at the school were putting those other students at further risk too. Bystanders have been killed by stray bullets from a cop's gun. A non-lethal weapon could have ended this without any loss of life, but was it even tried? It would be far less a tragedy if it had been.

I think developing effective non-lethal incapacitation for law enforcement should be a very high priority. I'd like to see an end to this kind of death.

[SallyMae]

Here's an explanation I read from an officer:

My department has a very formulaic response to dangerous subjects. Primary, backup, and supervisor go on scene, make a plan, and approach using a force array. This normally means one officer has a lethal response and another has less-than-lethal. This takes time to set up, but if we’re being perfectly honest the department will never be sued for responding too slowly as long as a response happens.

For this example, we’ll say that the backup officer is using a less-than-lethal option. Many options are available, and depend on what is available and appropriate for the situation. While options like a baton or pepper-spray might be appropriate under other circumstances, they might not be the best for someone with a gun. There are other options like the Taser, beanbag shotgun, or 40mm launcher that are more or less instantaneous and may incapacitate the person with a gun without the need for gunfire.

Normally, we announce a less-than-lethal option before firing it to avoid sympathetic fire. If it’s effective—and often they are—then that’s great. Collect the gun and put the detainee in handcuffs as trained. If it’s not effective and a lethal threat is presented, then you still have a gun up and ready to answer the threat.

But, those stories never make the news.
---------------------------------------
(https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-non- ... with-a-gun)

I don't expect this in every situation but it does happen.

Lasting consequences are better than death IMO.

You said it: in SOME situations and this COULD HAVE BEEN one of them, but if you can’t be sure, you can make a much bigger tragedy. The kid isn’t incapacitated by the non lethal weapon, he can easily take down 2, 3, 4 cops amidst the chaos. Situations like these you have to end ASAP, before the person becomes more dangerous and violent.
I don’t remember where I saw this, but I heard that there’s nothing more dangerous than an armed person not willing to shoot to kill. Dangerous for the armed person, BTW. That nanosecond hesitation may cost them their lives.
It would be nice to have non lethal methods, but they would have to be 100% effective and completely incapacitate the person, like making them completely unconscious. And that’s not a simple thing to do and could leave lasting sequels.

[Della]

"The weapon was described as a Ruger .177-caliber pellet rifle. The state said police at the scene were wearing body cameras."

https://apnews.com/article/wisconsin-sc ... ba7525614c