Florida settles with Miami hotel over drag queen Christmas show

[SouthernIslander]

Women are being forced to be on the brink of death to get abortions in states where it’s illegal not because of costumes at protests, but because Republican lawmakers either don’t care, or do care, but are too scared to stand up against pro-life lobbyist groups who helped draft and pass these laws, and who won’t hesitate to primary Republicans they see as insufficiently restrictive on abortion: https://www.propublica.org/article/abor ... alth-risks

Do you think this kind of behavior led them to care more?

How many of you were in the offices of those republican lawmakers lobbying for our abortion rights?

I don’t think it led them to care any more or less. If the real, documented suffering of real women happening every day under these laws isn’t motivating them to care about women’s health and lives, it’s hard to believe costumes at protests moved the needle on their opinion either way.

This made me picture somebody trying to convince a southern republican not to ban abortion like they care.
They only get emotional about stuff like money, guns and football.

That’s what happens when 1 political leaning dominates a region for this long. They have no reason to compromise or please people who are gonna vote for them anyway.

[Francee89]

I’m skeptical that somehow pressuring the ones who care about the consequences to women’s health (and I’m not sure how you would, given that the threats of primaries are very real) would make enough of a difference given that many of these Republicans are clearly fine with the status quo and not at all moved by testimony and evidence of the result of these laws to want to change them.

No, they’re not moved by testimony or evidence, they’re moved by financial pressures and the need to keep their job.


Republicans are doing a really good job right now of getting most of their elected officials to believe both their finances and their job will be negatively impacted if they don’t vote a certain way. They are doing that mostly through lobbiests.


If Democrats want things to start going their way, they need to start doing the things that will matter. The frivolity of dancing vaginas isn’t it.

You are weirdly focused on that. Maybe we had dancing vaginas because literally nothing else worked. Do you think p**sy hats are our first line of defense or something?

The most famous examples of dancing vaginas I can think of were the Women’s March protests, which happened after Trump was inaugurated. The SCOTUS Justices that Trump picked were part of a 50 year long project to overturn Roe - these were people who dedicated their professional lives around building resumes in right wing circles to get them selected in order to do exactly what they did. No matter what anyone did or didn’t wear, Trump was never going to pick anyone but Federalist Society approved judges, and Brett Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett were never going to rule any other way on this. There was also no shortage of very serious warnings from medical groups that passing restrictive laws would interfere with doctor’s ability to provide care to patients without fear of government reprisal, so I’m not sure why lawmakers could get a pass for ignoring that because they found some protest tactics silly.

[Lexy]

No, they’re not moved by testimony or evidence, they’re moved by financial pressures and the need to keep their job.


Republicans are doing a really good job right now of getting most of their elected officials to believe both their finances and their job will be negatively impacted if they don’t vote a certain way. They are doing that mostly through lobbiests.


If Democrats want things to start going their way, they need to start doing the things that will matter. The frivolity of dancing vaginas isn’t it.

You are weirdly focused on that. Maybe we had dancing vaginas because literally nothing else worked. Do you think p**sy hats are our first line of defense or something?

The most famous examples of dancing vaginas I can think of were the Women’s March protests, which happened after Trump was inaugurated. The SCOTUS Justices that Trump picked were part of a 50 year long project to overturn Roe - these were people who dedicated their professional lives around building resumes in right wing circles to get them selected in order to do exactly what they did. No matter what anyone did or didn’t wear, Trump was never going to pick anyone but Federalist Society approved judges, and Brett Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett were never going to rule any other way on this.

The most famous examples of dancing vaginas I can think of were the Women’s March protests,

The same protest led by Linda Sasour!

[Slimshandy]

I’m skeptical that somehow pressuring the ones who care about the consequences to women’s health (and I’m not sure how you would, given that the threats of primaries are very real) would make enough of a difference given that many of these Republicans are clearly fine with the status quo and not at all moved by testimony and evidence of the result of these laws to want to change them.

No, they’re not moved by testimony or evidence, they’re moved by financial pressures and the need to keep their job.


Republicans are doing a really good job right now of getting most of their elected officials to believe both their finances and their job will be negatively impacted if they don’t vote a certain way. They are doing that mostly through lobbiests.


If Democrats want things to start going their way, they need to start doing the things that will matter. The frivolity of dancing vaginas isn’t it.

You are weirdly focused on that. Maybe we had dancing vaginas because literally nothing else worked. Do you think p**sy hats are our first line of defense or something?

Then we gave up.

Those kinds of displays weren’t a line of defense at all, they were an admittance of a lack of logical forward movement.



This is an extremely serious topic to the other side, if we don’t treat it with the same, actually - with more serious logic behind our reasonings, then we can’t win.

[jessilin0113]

No, they’re not moved by testimony or evidence, they’re moved by financial pressures and the need to keep their job.


Republicans are doing a really good job right now of getting most of their elected officials to believe both their finances and their job will be negatively impacted if they don’t vote a certain way. They are doing that mostly through lobbiests.


If Democrats want things to start going their way, they need to start doing the things that will matter. The frivolity of dancing vaginas isn’t it.

You are weirdly focused on that. Maybe we had dancing vaginas because literally nothing else worked. Do you think p**sy hats are our first line of defense or something?

Then we gave up.

Those kinds of displays weren’t a line of defense at all, they were an admittance of a lack of logical forward movement.



This is an extremely serious topic to the other side, if we don’t treat it with the same, actually - with more serious logic behind our reasonings, then we can’t win.

What could be more serious than "Women will die and are dying"? Or "10 years olds will be forced to give birth to their rapist's baby"? Or every major medical organization releasing statements against these laws? Or doctors leaving the state and their practice in response to the outcomes of these laws? And we still didn't win. What we need to do is ratfuck the system the way the GOP has for the last 30+ years, but democrats insist on playing nice, or fair, and continue to think the other party operates in good faith when that is persistently and chronically untrue.

[Slimshandy]

You are weirdly focused on that. Maybe we had dancing vaginas because literally nothing else worked. Do you think p**sy hats are our first line of defense or something?

Then we gave up.

Those kinds of displays weren’t a line of defense at all, they were an admittance of a lack of logical forward movement.



This is an extremely serious topic to the other side, if we don’t treat it with the same, actually - with more serious logic behind our reasonings, then we can’t win.

What could be more serious than "Women will die and are dying"? Or "10 years olds will be forced to give birth to their rapist's baby"? And we still didn't win. What we need to do is ratfuck the system the way the GOP has for the last 30+ years, but democrats insist on playing nice, or fair, and continue to think the other party operates in good faith when that is persistently and chronically untrue.

Ok, what does that look like? What needs to happen to achieve this?

[SouthernIslander]

What we need to do is ratfuck the system the way the GOP has for the last 30+ years, but democrats insist on playing nice, or fair, and continue to think the other party operates in good faith when that is persistently and chronically untrue.

I never heard ratfuck before…….

[jessilin0113]

Then we gave up.

Those kinds of displays weren’t a line of defense at all, they were an admittance of a lack of logical forward movement.



This is an extremely serious topic to the other side, if we don’t treat it with the same, actually - with more serious logic behind our reasonings, then we can’t win.

What could be more serious than "Women will die and are dying"? Or "10 years olds will be forced to give birth to their rapist's baby"? And we still didn't win. What we need to do is ratfuck the system the way the GOP has for the last 30+ years, but democrats insist on playing nice, or fair, and continue to think the other party operates in good faith when that is persistently and chronically untrue.

Ok, what does that look like? What needs to happen to achieve this?

Utilize their ground-up strategy. Focus on smaller races (school boards, city, county), and build up to state/federal. By that time they have control over mechanisms that allow for things like gerrymandering. The first part is smart, the second part is where Democrats (rightly so) balk. They won't play dirty. Really they just need to undo GOP legislation since it's generally unpopular, but since the GOP played smart and dirty, they are pretty entrenched, despite representing less people and having less popular ideas. That's why they keep winning.

[RIZZY]

Seems like an easy fix would be requiring the hotel to have an age requirement to attend the show, just like movie theaters, etc. When I was a kid, we got asked how old we were when buying movie tickets to something more mature. Our parents being with us didn't necessarily matter, we had to be a certain age. I didn't read the settlement but I'm guessing this would be too easy of a solution.

I worked at a movie theater 30 years ago. Even then, if it was an R rated movie and the parent was with the kids then we didn't need to worry about the kids' ages. Now if the kids were alone trying to get into an R rated movie, then we could require ID to prove they were old enough to purchase the tickets. But if an adult was with them it didn't matter.

Now on the topic of age requirement to attend a drag show, my understanding is that it already exists. There are some specific drag shows that are 21+ for attendance no matter what. Those shows usually are held in venues that are already 21+ so kids don't get in anyway. That is where you will find your more raunchy drag shows.

My point being, the rules are already there for these drag shows. The really raunchy ones are already 21+, and the ones that would be more equivalent to R or PG it's up to the parents if they want their kids to attend. Why do we need to change that by forcing an age requirement on every show? What we've had for years and years already works.

So....yes, there is an easy solution.

[SallyMae]

We can agree to disagree on that.

I think it severely delegitimized the cause.

We were fighting for life and death choices for women, raped 13 year olds being able to decide their own future. Abused women being able to leave their relationships without forever ties to their abusers…

Then it became fake vaginas, harmonicas and people acting like idiots in the streets because they were having fun.

I can’t even imagine how they possibly thought this would help anyone.

It is an honor to disagree with you, and I'm glad we can discuss it. I don't agree that those things are in conflict. Here are my scrap pages of the event:











As you can see this was an incredibly serious and empowering event for women, and a show of strength. Power to the diversity of expression and the freedom to be unashamed of biology! In my opinion, blaming this woman and this cause for the sacking of their own rights is just more victim-blaming, "she had it coming because of what she was wearing" bullshit. Rights are rights.

But, the original question was whether the sight of this would somehow harm a child who saw it. There is no evidence to suggest that this sight is psychologically damaging, or that viewing a raunchy adult show hurts children in any way. It's not inherently dangerous. Think about what children routinely would have grown up seeing and hearing in the close quarters of the tribal societies we evolved in. Their psyches were made to handle it.

There is zero reason to think adult drag shows represent some kind of threat to children that justifies violating people's rights to freedom of expression and a parent's freedom to decide what their own child can handle. The law is not for protecting children who are under zero threat, from a situation that almost never happens. It's about Othering alternative gender expressions, and that's all.