260 test positive at Georgia children's camp

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cgd5112
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I remember a version of the article you posted from many years ago. It was scandalous across the country ( the test manipulation) since it seemed like the manipulation was most often happening in areas where children were already in poor quality school districts.

Frankly, I don't believe that American education is a level playing field across the country for many reasons. I will share that when I was a child, CA proposed Prop 13. CA had a pot of money they collected from the state and evenly distributed the money for education ( I'm totally editing this). Prop 13 passed and the money allocated for education stayed within each district, essentially it was the beginning of academic stratification. The well to do areas kept quality schools and educators and the low income lost excellent teachers and got the not so good ones. Do you remember that movie with Olmos? Stand and Deliver (I think). It was about a teacher in Los Angeles- east LA to be exact. He taught his students AP Calculus. He didn't just walk in and started this, but built up to it. Anyway, his students passed the AP test and because of the students demographics, the results were questioned and I think some actually re took it and STILL passed. My point in mentioning this is that it is not a secret that our education system is stratified. So much so that test result expectations vary and are expected based on geography.

As for teachers ... Like I mentioned to KnotaD, I think that those doing remote teaching should have a salary cut. Part time work should get part time pay and part time benefits. It's certainly not an answer and the need for in person learning is very important. But you can't force people to work. So, if they don't work, why should we pay? I know trump said he'd withhold money if the schools do not open up. That money largely goes to children with SN, so I don't agree withholding at a fed level is a good idea. Especially if schools offer in person for children with SN.

I think that the camp issue , generally speaking, is relevant re contagion. Even if the children were all exposed to the virus prior to coming to camp ( and not getting the virus at camp), it means that a bunch of positive kids congregated and may have passed it to those kids who may have been negative. The algorithm of exposure is complicated. I read an article about the lower number of receptors in younger children and the possible effect of transmission. However, they can still get it, it's just less likely than an older child or adult. The concern is if they develop symptoms, then they are just as contagious as anyone else.

In another thread I mentioned to a mom how no one knows how your child will react to the virus if he/she gets it. I think that's the part that is not a focus of many of these exposure reports ( not studies). I certainly do not want my son exposed or getting CoVid. I don't want to place a bet on whether he'll be the one who develops Kawasaki Syndrome. We all have varying thresholds of risk. Mine is low :)

There was an interesting article in the Times about a family of 3. The dad in his 60s and retired (no comorbidities) got incredibly sick from CoVid and was on a vent for 51 days. His wife, also in her 60s, and a SN teacher, was negative and never got it. Their young adult daughter had a flu like illness and recovered in less than 3 weeks. Go figure. The damn virus is all over the place.

I'll have to google suicide rates in the age group you mentioned. I didn't know that. Is this in the US or globally?

Btw thank you for the article :)


Mommamia wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:32 am
cgd5112 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:01 am Studies are being cranked out left and right where I live ( Boston) as they are in Italy China Sweden , etc. There is a lot of information tid bits that needs to be made sense of at a grander scale, I suppose. There is a study out now that found children who are midly symptomatic ( no hospitalization) are just as contagious as older children and adults. So when a child has cold-luke symptoms ( sniffles for example ) but otherwise no temp, and are positive, they are very contagious to those around them like any other adult who’s positive.

I agree with you re overnight camps. I would not send my child either. But re schools, why do you think a whole generation is being dummied down? It’s at most ( hopefully) one academic year. Serious question, not baiting you. There are plenty of children who miss school for long periods of time who do just fine upon return. Older kids take a year off before going to university, or bc they had an illness that prevented them from attending school, etc.
I’m just wondering what your thoughts are on thus matter. You’re not the only one who’s said this.
Mommamia wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:39 am Something the CDC report fails to mention is just how many of those kids were sick enough to require hospitalization? And the CDC report starts out with:

Limited data are available about transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), among youths.

The findings in this report are subject to at least three limitations. First, attack rates presented are likely an underestimate because cases might have been missed among persons not tested or whose test results were not reported. Second, given the increasing incidence of COVID-19 in Georgia in June and July, some cases might have resulted from transmission occurring before or after camp attendance.†† Finally, it was not possible to assess individual adherence to COVID-19 prevention measures at camp A, including physical distancing between, and within, cabin cohorts and use of cloth masks, which were not required for campers.

It's obvious this is an outlier. You put 15 kids in a cabin, they sing, shout, do everything together 24/7 and you're going to get sick kids. Not only did the camp not require them to wear masks, they neglected to have windows open and lots of ventilation. This place was a major petrie dish just like those cruise ships.

Big difference between overnight camps that obviously didn't take all of the precautions suggested and kids going back to school wearing masks, social distancing as much as possible, with schools following as many of the reopening guidelines as they can.

Considering this camp was June 21 and the CDC is just now reporting this leads one to think they aren't all that worried about transmission between children under 17.

Personally, I would never send a child to an overnight camp this summer. But I would send them to school. Unfortunately, teachers' unions are winning this battle. So, we'll just dumb this generation down even more.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 100934.htm

Studies of children in many countries have been found to have a 2%-5% chance of getting COVID. They also have been found not to have spread it to other children and/or adults. Through contact tracing, the children have caught it from adults in their lives. One researcher thinks it has to do with the receptors in human cells that the corona virus latches on to are less developed in younger people.

The latest reports of 'studies' use the qualifiers of 'may' and 'possibility' which really leaves things up in the air.

Dumbing down of our children. Here is an excellent article from 2015 which still holds true to this day........

https://atlantadailyworld.com/2015/04/1 ... education/

George Bush's 'No Child Left Behind' was a disaster. All it accomplished was teachers teaching children how to take the test, and quite a bit of fraud.

Obama's 'Common Core' was an unmitigated disaster for our children. He bribed (tied funds to it) the states to institute it. The only people to benefit from that were the people who wrote and published the books.

As for kids who miss a lot of school because of a severe illness or maybe a bad accident, they can do well because they are getting assignments from the teachers, they often get tutors supplied by school districts, and other help to keep them abreast of what the kids in the classes are learning.

Here in IL a few years ago the state education board informed all public schools to develop an e-learning plan that could be used in the event that schools could be closed for a long period of time, such as a pandemic.. They were to submit these plans to the state for approval. Only about 20% of the schools in the entire state bothered to do this.

Schools were closed effective 3/31/20. The week before was spring break. Because most schools had no e-learning plans to use, teachers scrambled to find platforms. Then with e-learning, not every child has a computer, so what were they supposed to do?

Besides the dismal failure of my granchildren's schools and having talked to many parents from other school districts, it was pretty much the same thing.....teacher's came on told the kids to do this, this and that and said "I'll be here for two hours if you need any help." That was the extent of their 'school day'.

So many kids across the country stopped tuning into their e-learning classes all together, studies have shown.

This is just another example of the educational system failing the children big time.

In jr high and high school I don't see how kids can advance to their next level of math or science when they've missed 6 months to a year of their current levels.

I really don't think e-learning is going to be any better in these schools in the fall. In person learning is also so necessary for the mental health and well being of kids. Suicide rates for 10-14 year olds have skyrocketed to unprecedented numbers. And think of all of those special needs kids who are not getting any help at all.

Sorry I got off to a rant about school closings continuing, but I just feel so strongly that the kids should go back to school. It is the teacher's unions who are continuing to dumb down our children by refusing to go back to school and do their jobs.
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MonarchMom wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:21 am In this case the counselors had to wear masks, but not the campers. Everyone was required to be tested within 12 days before attending camp, and kids were kept in separate "pods."

This is more precautions than the schools will take. Georgia will provide masks, but is not requiring masks for students or teachers when returning to schools. They only require masks while on the buses. And all social distance measures are “where feasible.”
Requiring anyone to be tested 12 days ahead of time is an exercise in futility. That's a long time in which one could contract the virus without knowing it.

In fact, I had to have a COVID test last Tues, July 28, because I'm having a minor procedure to my left knee (getting injections of artificial cartilage) this Tues, Aug 4th, at a surgicenter. Getting a test one week before doesn't guarantee the center that I or anyone else going there haven't contracted the virus in the mean time. The logical thing for the surgicenter would be for them to purchase their own testing apparatus that can have results in hours or a day or two.
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cgd5112 wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:52 am I remember a version of the article you posted from many years ago. It was scandalous across the country ( the test manipulation) since it seemed like the manipulation was most often happening in areas where children were already in poor quality school districts.

Frankly, I don't believe that American education is a level playing field across the country for many reasons. I will share that when I was a child, CA proposed Prop 13. CA had a pot of money they collected from the state and evenly distributed the money for education ( I'm totally editing this). Prop 13 passed and the money allocated for education stayed within each district, essentially it was the beginning of academic stratification. The well to do areas kept quality schools and educators and the low income lost excellent teachers and got the not so good ones. Do you remember that movie with Olmos? Stand and Deliver (I think). It was about a teacher in Los Angeles- east LA to be exact. He taught his students AP Calculus. He didn't just walk in and started this, but built up to it. Anyway, his students passed the AP test and because of the students demographics, the results were questioned and I think some actually re took it and STILL passed. My point in mentioning this is that it is not a secret that our education system is stratified. So much so that test result expectations vary and are expected based on geography.

As for teachers ... Like I mentioned to KnotaD, I think that those doing remote teaching should have a salary cut. Part time work should get part time pay and part time benefits. It's certainly not an answer and the need for in person learning is very important. But you can't force people to work. So, if they don't work, why should we pay? I know trump said he'd withhold money if the schools do not open up. That money largely goes to children with SN, so I don't agree withholding at a fed level is a good idea. Especially if schools offer in person for children with SN.

I think that the camp issue , generally speaking, is relevant re contagion. Even if the children were all exposed to the virus prior to coming to camp ( and not getting the virus at camp), it means that a bunch of positive kids congregated and may have passed it to those kids who may have been negative. The algorithm of exposure is complicated. I read an article about the lower number of receptors in younger children and the possible effect of transmission. However, they can still get it, it's just less likely than an older child or adult. The concern is if they develop symptoms, then they are just as contagious as anyone else.

In another thread I mentioned to a mom how no one knows how your child will react to the virus if he/she gets it. I think that's the part that is not a focus of many of these exposure reports ( not studies). I certainly do not want my son exposed or getting CoVid. I don't want to place a bet on whether he'll be the one who develops Kawasaki Syndrome. We all have varying thresholds of risk. Mine is low :)

There was an interesting article in the Times about a family of 3. The dad in his 60s and retired (no comorbidities) got incredibly sick from CoVid and was on a vent for 51 days. His wife, also in her 60s, and a SN teacher, was negative and never got it. Their young adult daughter had a flu like illness and recovered in less than 3 weeks. Go figure. The damn virus is all over the place.

I'll have to google suicide rates in the age group you mentioned. I didn't know that. Is this in the US or globally?

Btw thank you for the article :)


Mommamia wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:32 am
cgd5112 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:01 am Studies are being cranked out left and right where I live ( Boston) as they are in Italy China Sweden , etc. There is a lot of information tid bits that needs to be made sense of at a grander scale, I suppose. There is a study out now that found children who are midly symptomatic ( no hospitalization) are just as contagious as older children and adults. So when a child has cold-luke symptoms ( sniffles for example ) but otherwise no temp, and are positive, they are very contagious to those around them like any other adult who’s positive.

I agree with you re overnight camps. I would not send my child either. But re schools, why do you think a whole generation is being dummied down? It’s at most ( hopefully) one academic year. Serious question, not baiting you. There are plenty of children who miss school for long periods of time who do just fine upon return. Older kids take a year off before going to university, or bc they had an illness that prevented them from attending school, etc.
I’m just wondering what your thoughts are on thus matter. You’re not the only one who’s said this.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 100934.htm

Studies of children in many countries have been found to have a 2%-5% chance of getting COVID. They also have been found not to have spread it to other children and/or adults. Through contact tracing, the children have caught it from adults in their lives. One researcher thinks it has to do with the receptors in human cells that the corona virus latches on to are less developed in younger people.

The latest reports of 'studies' use the qualifiers of 'may' and 'possibility' which really leaves things up in the air.

Dumbing down of our children. Here is an excellent article from 2015 which still holds true to this day........

https://atlantadailyworld.com/2015/04/1 ... education/

George Bush's 'No Child Left Behind' was a disaster. All it accomplished was teachers teaching children how to take the test, and quite a bit of fraud.

Obama's 'Common Core' was an unmitigated disaster for our children. He bribed (tied funds to it) the states to institute it. The only people to benefit from that were the people who wrote and published the books.

As for kids who miss a lot of school because of a severe illness or maybe a bad accident, they can do well because they are getting assignments from the teachers, they often get tutors supplied by school districts, and other help to keep them abreast of what the kids in the classes are learning.

Here in IL a few years ago the state education board informed all public schools to develop an e-learning plan that could be used in the event that schools could be closed for a long period of time, such as a pandemic.. They were to submit these plans to the state for approval. Only about 20% of the schools in the entire state bothered to do this.

Schools were closed effective 3/31/20. The week before was spring break. Because most schools had no e-learning plans to use, teachers scrambled to find platforms. Then with e-learning, not every child has a computer, so what were they supposed to do?

Besides the dismal failure of my granchildren's schools and having talked to many parents from other school districts, it was pretty much the same thing.....teacher's came on told the kids to do this, this and that and said "I'll be here for two hours if you need any help." That was the extent of their 'school day'.

So many kids across the country stopped tuning into their e-learning classes all together, studies have shown.

This is just another example of the educational system failing the children big time.

In jr high and high school I don't see how kids can advance to their next level of math or science when they've missed 6 months to a year of their current levels.

I really don't think e-learning is going to be any better in these schools in the fall. In person learning is also so necessary for the mental health and well being of kids. Suicide rates for 10-14 year olds have skyrocketed to unprecedented numbers. And think of all of those special needs kids who are not getting any help at all.

Sorry I got off to a rant about school closings continuing, but I just feel so strongly that the kids should go back to school. It is the teacher's unions who are continuing to dumb down our children by refusing to go back to school and do their jobs.
Here in IL, local property taxes are the source for the majority of a school's funds. The state funds about 24%, the lion's share of which goes to the 'poorest ' school districts, i.e., Chicago gets the biggest pot of state funds, and their teachers are among the highest paid city school districts in the country. Of my $9, 400.00 tax bill, the high schools and grade schools get $6,930,00, and that's not counting what we have to pay for school pensions.

It's funny you should mention teachers should be getting part-time pay for part-time work. I agree and so does nearly everyone I know. I just read an article in my local very liberal newspaper. It was by one of their long time editors (?). He brought up how we, the tax payers, should be getting a refund on our state taxes for 2020 and possibly into 2021's taxes. He pointed out how with schools closed, not only are teachers working part time, but the schools aren't paying for janitorial services, office people, counselors, nurses, school buses, drivers and fuel, using very little electricity, city water, gas to heat the buildings this fall and winter, etc. It's probably one of the few times I have ever agreed with this man, lol.
Mommamia
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cgd5112 wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:52 am I remember a version of the article you posted from many years ago. It was scandalous across the country ( the test manipulation) since it seemed like the manipulation was most often happening in areas where children were already in poor quality school districts.

Frankly, I don't believe that American education is a level playing field across the country for many reasons. I will share that when I was a child, CA proposed Prop 13. CA had a pot of money they collected from the state and evenly distributed the money for education ( I'm totally editing this). Prop 13 passed and the money allocated for education stayed within each district, essentially it was the beginning of academic stratification. The well to do areas kept quality schools and educators and the low income lost excellent teachers and got the not so good ones. Do you remember that movie with Olmos? Stand and Deliver (I think). It was about a teacher in Los Angeles- east LA to be exact. He taught his students AP Calculus. He didn't just walk in and started this, but built up to it. Anyway, his students passed the AP test and because of the students demographics, the results were questioned and I think some actually re took it and STILL passed. My point in mentioning this is that it is not a secret that our education system is stratified. So much so that test result expectations vary and are expected based on geography.

As for teachers ... Like I mentioned to KnotaD, I think that those doing remote teaching should have a salary cut. Part time work should get part time pay and part time benefits. It's certainly not an answer and the need for in person learning is very important. But you can't force people to work. So, if they don't work, why should we pay? I know trump said he'd withhold money if the schools do not open up. That money largely goes to children with SN, so I don't agree withholding at a fed level is a good idea. Especially if schools offer in person for children with SN.

I think that the camp issue , generally speaking, is relevant re contagion. Even if the children were all exposed to the virus prior to coming to camp ( and not getting the virus at camp), it means that a bunch of positive kids congregated and may have passed it to those kids who may have been negative. The algorithm of exposure is complicated. I read an article about the lower number of receptors in younger children and the possible effect of transmission. However, they can still get it, it's just less likely than an older child or adult. The concern is if they develop symptoms, then they are just as contagious as anyone else.

In another thread I mentioned to a mom how no one knows how your child will react to the virus if he/she gets it. I think that's the part that is not a focus of many of these exposure reports ( not studies). I certainly do not want my son exposed or getting CoVid. I don't want to place a bet on whether he'll be the one who develops Kawasaki Syndrome. We all have varying thresholds of risk. Mine is low :)

There was an interesting article in the Times about a family of 3. The dad in his 60s and retired (no comorbidities) got incredibly sick from CoVid and was on a vent for 51 days. His wife, also in her 60s, and a SN teacher, was negative and never got it. Their young adult daughter had a flu like illness and recovered in less than 3 weeks. Go figure. The damn virus is all over the place.

I'll have to google suicide rates in the age group you mentioned. I didn't know that. Is this in the US or globally?

Btw thank you for the article :)


Mommamia wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:32 am
cgd5112 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:01 am Studies are being cranked out left and right where I live ( Boston) as they are in Italy China Sweden , etc. There is a lot of information tid bits that needs to be made sense of at a grander scale, I suppose. There is a study out now that found children who are midly symptomatic ( no hospitalization) are just as contagious as older children and adults. So when a child has cold-luke symptoms ( sniffles for example ) but otherwise no temp, and are positive, they are very contagious to those around them like any other adult who’s positive.

I agree with you re overnight camps. I would not send my child either. But re schools, why do you think a whole generation is being dummied down? It’s at most ( hopefully) one academic year. Serious question, not baiting you. There are plenty of children who miss school for long periods of time who do just fine upon return. Older kids take a year off before going to university, or bc they had an illness that prevented them from attending school, etc.
I’m just wondering what your thoughts are on thus matter. You’re not the only one who’s said this.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 100934.htm

Studies of children in many countries have been found to have a 2%-5% chance of getting COVID. They also have been found not to have spread it to other children and/or adults. Through contact tracing, the children have caught it from adults in their lives. One researcher thinks it has to do with the receptors in human cells that the corona virus latches on to are less developed in younger people.

The latest reports of 'studies' use the qualifiers of 'may' and 'possibility' which really leaves things up in the air.

Dumbing down of our children. Here is an excellent article from 2015 which still holds true to this day........

https://atlantadailyworld.com/2015/04/1 ... education/

George Bush's 'No Child Left Behind' was a disaster. All it accomplished was teachers teaching children how to take the test, and quite a bit of fraud.

Obama's 'Common Core' was an unmitigated disaster for our children. He bribed (tied funds to it) the states to institute it. The only people to benefit from that were the people who wrote and published the books.

As for kids who miss a lot of school because of a severe illness or maybe a bad accident, they can do well because they are getting assignments from the teachers, they often get tutors supplied by school districts, and other help to keep them abreast of what the kids in the classes are learning.

Here in IL a few years ago the state education board informed all public schools to develop an e-learning plan that could be used in the event that schools could be closed for a long period of time, such as a pandemic.. They were to submit these plans to the state for approval. Only about 20% of the schools in the entire state bothered to do this.

Schools were closed effective 3/31/20. The week before was spring break. Because most schools had no e-learning plans to use, teachers scrambled to find platforms. Then with e-learning, not every child has a computer, so what were they supposed to do?

Besides the dismal failure of my granchildren's schools and having talked to many parents from other school districts, it was pretty much the same thing.....teacher's came on told the kids to do this, this and that and said "I'll be here for two hours if you need any help." That was the extent of their 'school day'.

So many kids across the country stopped tuning into their e-learning classes all together, studies have shown.

This is just another example of the educational system failing the children big time.

In jr high and high school I don't see how kids can advance to their next level of math or science when they've missed 6 months to a year of their current levels.

I really don't think e-learning is going to be any better in these schools in the fall. In person learning is also so necessary for the mental health and well being of kids. Suicide rates for 10-14 year olds have skyrocketed to unprecedented numbers. And think of all of those special needs kids who are not getting any help at all.

Sorry I got off to a rant about school closings continuing, but I just feel so strongly that the kids should go back to school. It is the teacher's unions who are continuing to dumb down our children by refusing to go back to school and do their jobs.
I just got off the phone a while ago with one of my daughter's. It turns out her hs district had worked very hard to put together their plan for safely opening the school starting with two weeks of e-learning, then in person classes after Labor Day while following the CDC guidelines as much as possible. Out of the 4 schools (K-12) in their district only 30 teachers/aides/SN, etc. said they wouldn't return for in person classes but would do e-learning classes. Their teachers do have to show up at school to teach their classes by e-learning.

As I said above, the teacher's unions are killing our children's education. After all the work their teachers and admins put into their very good plan, the state board of ed just issued a whole new additional 100 pages of rules over and above the CDC guidelines. There's no way the schools can implement that stuff in time for in person classes, if at all. If the schools don't follow ISBE ad IDHP guidelines they are open to liability and their insurance won't protect them.

In other words, the teachers' union made it so the schools cannot open.

My daughter hasn't told the kids yet, since a formal announcement hasn't been made up to this point. They'll probably be informing the parents in the next day or two. My grands are going to be so upset as they were really looking forward to going back to school.
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I read one report recently about a county in Northern Virginia where residents are upset about teachers and tutoring. It seems teachers are allowed there to tutor for pay in their downtime and what was seen at the end of the school year was that teachers were taking paying tutoring jobs during the day since their class was busy doing work at home and they were not online. That meant the wealthy families were having dedicated 1:1 online teaching help for their child while the rest of the class were leaving messages for their teacher if they had a question. Parents are upset.

I actually have said the same thing - property taxes should reduce as teachers shouldn’t get the same pay, schools shouldn’t get the same funding as the buildings and support staff are not being used. But the teachers’ unions are pushing for full salaries and benefits while teachers stay home. Probably because they want their cut to fill their political slush funds.
cgd5112 wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:08 am That's true re returning to where they left off. In this situation, we're talking about millions of children, so the notion of returning to where they left off is not feasible. It would mean they'd all essentially repeat the academic year.

From the very get go, the news reported on the lack of internet in many areas when remote learning was touted. I remember an article that stated that children in rural areas and in low income areas were going to be adversely affected because of this. Even in some densely populated urban areas, teachers reported that they lost contact with their students who were already at risk academically. They feared they just gave up, had no access, no support, got sick, ...who knows?

We are fortunate that our district has done a great job with remote learning. Is it as good or better than unperson? Absolutely not; and I am aware that in other areas, the quality of remote learning varies.

I'm going to go off on a tangent here. We pay a crap load on property taxes. A significant amount of the funding comes from our taxes ( our superintendent did a presentation on this as other things were proposed and were to come to a vote prior to CoVid). So if a school district decides to do all remote and the time and quality of the academics is diminished, I don't see why we should pay school employees their full salaries. I'm sure I'll get flack for this comment, but I think people should get paid accordingly.

As for children with special needs, one district here is giving or proposed giving children with special needs the option of going in person for 4 days ( I think). I think it is very important that the most vulnerable of our children continue to have access to the services they need. But I also think it has to be done in a way that minimizes risks. The logistics of this must be overwhelming and I do not envy the school district administrators' jobs in figuring this out.







KnotaDinghy wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:14 pm
cgd5112 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:01 am Studies are being cranked out left and right where I live ( Boston) as they are in Italy China Sweden , etc. There is a lot of information tid bits that needs to be made sense of at a grander scale, I suppose. There is a study out now that found children who are midly symptomatic ( no hospitalization) are just as contagious as older children and adults. So when a child has cold-luke symptoms ( sniffles for example ) but otherwise no temp, and are positive, they are very contagious to those around them like any other adult who’s positive.

I agree with you re overnight camps. I would not send my child either. But re schools, why do you think a whole generation is being dummied down? It’s at most ( hopefully) one academic year. Serious question, not baiting you. There are plenty of children who miss school for long periods of time who do just fine upon return. Older kids take a year off before going to university, or bc they had an illness that prevented them from attending school, etc.
I’m just wondering what your thoughts are on thus matter. You’re not the only one who’s said this.

I agree- about all the science that still needs analysis and correlation. There is still so much that isn’t known also.

I worry about kids not being in the classroom, I think it will impact them but I wouldn’t use the dummies down phrasing - I don’t think it will be as bad as some have said.

I agree that people miss a year or two all the time or months due to illness and they do fine. The difference I see is that when someone is sick or takes time off they return to where they left off. This online learning BS we are seeing is the kids are still progressing, just not with as much knowledge as if they were being taught. Many of the schools in my area have children without internet at home or parents with low education or working multiple jobs so there is no educating happening. The kids get packets of activities to work on at their own pace and can call via phone a teacher with questions and leave a message as the teacher most likely is online with the other students who have internet or they are actually teaching their own kids.

This online learning is really a detriment and I’m a big supporter of home schooling - which this is not. Lower income and rural kids will be educationally left behind. They won’t get the benefit of a level playing field which in person schooling provides.
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KnotaDinghy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:37 pm I read one report recently about a county in Northern Virginia where residents are upset about teachers and tutoring. It seems teachers are allowed there to tutor for pay in their downtime and what was seen at the end of the school year was that teachers were taking paying tutoring jobs during the day since their class was busy doing work at home and they were not online. That meant the wealthy families were having dedicated 1:1 online teaching help for their child while the rest of the class were leaving messages for their teacher if they had a question. Parents are upset.

I actually have said the same thing - property taxes should reduce as teachers shouldn’t get the same pay, schools shouldn’t get the same funding as the buildings and support staff are not being used. But the teachers’ unions are pushing for full salaries and benefits while teachers stay home. Probably because they want their cut to fill their political slush funds.
cgd5112 wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:08 am That's true re returning to where they left off. In this situation, we're talking about millions of children, so the notion of returning to where they left off is not feasible. It would mean they'd all essentially repeat the academic year.

From the very get go, the news reported on the lack of internet in many areas when remote learning was touted. I remember an article that stated that children in rural areas and in low income areas were going to be adversely affected because of this. Even in some densely populated urban areas, teachers reported that they lost contact with their students who were already at risk academically. They feared they just gave up, had no access, no support, got sick, ...who knows?

We are fortunate that our district has done a great job with remote learning. Is it as good or better than unperson? Absolutely not; and I am aware that in other areas, the quality of remote learning varies.

I'm going to go off on a tangent here. We pay a crap load on property taxes. A significant amount of the funding comes from our taxes ( our superintendent did a presentation on this as other things were proposed and were to come to a vote prior to CoVid). So if a school district decides to do all remote and the time and quality of the academics is diminished, I don't see why we should pay school employees their full salaries. I'm sure I'll get flack for this comment, but I think people should get paid accordingly.

As for children with special needs, one district here is giving or proposed giving children with special needs the option of going in person for 4 days ( I think). I think it is very important that the most vulnerable of our children continue to have access to the services they need. But I also think it has to be done in a way that minimizes risks. The logistics of this must be overwhelming and I do not envy the school district administrators' jobs in figuring this out.







KnotaDinghy wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:14 pm

I agree- about all the science that still needs analysis and correlation. There is still so much that isn’t known also.

I worry about kids not being in the classroom, I think it will impact them but I wouldn’t use the dummies down phrasing - I don’t think it will be as bad as some have said.

I agree that people miss a year or two all the time or months due to illness and they do fine. The difference I see is that when someone is sick or takes time off they return to where they left off. This online learning BS we are seeing is the kids are still progressing, just not with as much knowledge as if they were being taught. Many of the schools in my area have children without internet at home or parents with low education or working multiple jobs so there is no educating happening. The kids get packets of activities to work on at their own pace and can call via phone a teacher with questions and leave a message as the teacher most likely is online with the other students who have internet or they are actually teaching their own kids.

This online learning is really a detriment and I’m a big supporter of home schooling - which this is not. Lower income and rural kids will be educationally left behind. They won’t get the benefit of a level playing field which in person schooling provides.
This is a prime example of unions having outlived their usefulness in the US. They had their place, before there was law protecting employees, Now all they are is a money suck and cause more harm than good. I know several people who after having paid union dues for years, they were left high and dry when shit hit the fan for them and they needed support.
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Valentina327 wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:52 pm
KnotaDinghy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:37 pm I read one report recently about a county in Northern Virginia where residents are upset about teachers and tutoring. It seems teachers are allowed there to tutor for pay in their downtime and what was seen at the end of the school year was that teachers were taking paying tutoring jobs during the day since their class was busy doing work at home and they were not online. That meant the wealthy families were having dedicated 1:1 online teaching help for their child while the rest of the class were leaving messages for their teacher if they had a question. Parents are upset.

I actually have said the same thing - property taxes should reduce as teachers shouldn’t get the same pay, schools shouldn’t get the same funding as the buildings and support staff are not being used. But the teachers’ unions are pushing for full salaries and benefits while teachers stay home. Probably because they want their cut to fill their political slush funds.
cgd5112 wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:08 am That's true re returning to where they left off. In this situation, we're talking about millions of children, so the notion of returning to where they left off is not feasible. It would mean they'd all essentially repeat the academic year.

From the very get go, the news reported on the lack of internet in many areas when remote learning was touted. I remember an article that stated that children in rural areas and in low income areas were going to be adversely affected because of this. Even in some densely populated urban areas, teachers reported that they lost contact with their students who were already at risk academically. They feared they just gave up, had no access, no support, got sick, ...who knows?

We are fortunate that our district has done a great job with remote learning. Is it as good or better than unperson? Absolutely not; and I am aware that in other areas, the quality of remote learning varies.

I'm going to go off on a tangent here. We pay a crap load on property taxes. A significant amount of the funding comes from our taxes ( our superintendent did a presentation on this as other things were proposed and were to come to a vote prior to CoVid). So if a school district decides to do all remote and the time and quality of the academics is diminished, I don't see why we should pay school employees their full salaries. I'm sure I'll get flack for this comment, but I think people should get paid accordingly.

As for children with special needs, one district here is giving or proposed giving children with special needs the option of going in person for 4 days ( I think). I think it is very important that the most vulnerable of our children continue to have access to the services they need. But I also think it has to be done in a way that minimizes risks. The logistics of this must be overwhelming and I do not envy the school district administrators' jobs in figuring this out.








This is a prime example of unions having outlived their usefulness in the US. They had their place, before there was law protecting employees, Now all they are is a money suck and cause more harm than good. I know several people who after having paid union dues for years, they were left high and dry when shit hit the fan for them and they needed support.
I agree.
“You’re either on drugs or retarded.
Nobody posts the crap you post unless they’re abnormal.” - derp
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