Religious nut Senator Tom Cotton claims slavery and holocaust were necessary

[Frau Holle]

Ignoring the issue of whether the creation of the state of Israel now (instead of, say, in 500 years time) is sufficiently important to justify committing the Holocaust, were that an EITHER / OR choice, and that even the Jews wouldn't agree it was a good trade...

he's wrong from a logical point of view. It would only count as "necessary" in order to achieve it if it could have been achieved in no other possible way. And there are many possible ways it could have been achieved by an omnipotent deity who has (on occasion, it is claimed) taken a direct hand in things, destroying whole cities and manipulating the thoughts of leaders (such as Egypt's Pharaoh).

He is of the faith that everything happens for a reason and God set into motion those reasons.
So everything in all of history that has ever happened until now has been necessary.

Why then does he go around condemning various deals (eg the Iran nuclear deal) and rulings (eg some from America's supreme court), if it were necessary for those things to happen? You might as well condemn an apple for falling off a tree due to gravity.

Because accepting that a mistake needed to happen to bring us to this point does not mean we should not do what we can to fix that mistake. Now that we have the wisdom to know better, we can do better.

[Frau Holle]

He is of the faith that everything happens for a reason and God set into motion those reasons.
So everything in all of history that has ever happened until now has been necessary.

Why then does he go around condemning various deals (eg the Iran nuclear deal) and rulings (eg some from America's supreme court), if it were necessary for those things to happen? You might as well condemn an apple for falling off a tree due to gravity.

That’s where the hypocrisies come in.

It's not a hypocrisy at all to attempt to remedy a mistake that has been made.

The belief is that everything happens for a reason, but that does not mean that each person shouldn't do everything they can to make each day better.

[Mommamia]

The extreme religious views are that there will be a second coming of Christ and that everyone will perish except the chosen Christians and only the Jews who have converted to Christianity will be saved. Yeah, they love the Jews for keeping Israel safe while they wait for Jesus.

Who the hell do you think you are to insult Christians or anyone's religious beliefs? You obviously know nothing about Christian beliefs.

She didn't insult all Christians. She specified the sub-set who are extremists.

Have a read of:

https://www.globalministries.org/mee_re ... nism_koshy

John Hagee

No. 'Extreme' is an adjective defining 'religious views'. Considering how nasty she gets, it is only logical to read her comment as a slam against Christian views. If she's talking about a a small fraction of Christians, she should have said 'extremist' religious views.

[Mommamia]

Who the hell do you think you are to insult Christians or anyone's religious beliefs? You obviously know nothing about Christian beliefs.

She didn't insult all Christians. She specified the sub-set who are extremists.

Have a read of:

https://www.globalministries.org/mee_re ... nism_koshy

John Hagee

Her trashy posts aren’t even worth responding to but I give you credit for trying.

Poor baby, keep on whining.

[Della]

He is of the faith that everything happens for a reason and God set into motion those reasons.
So everything in all of history that has ever happened until now has been necessary.

Why then does he go around condemning various deals (eg the Iran nuclear deal) and rulings (eg some from America's supreme court), if it were necessary for those things to happen? You might as well condemn an apple for falling off a tree due to gravity.

Because accepting that a mistake needed to happen to bring us to this point does not mean we should not do what we can to fix that mistake. Now that we have the wisdom to know better, we can do better.

So you agree with reparations?

[Della]

Who the hell do you think you are to insult Christians or anyone's religious beliefs? You obviously know nothing about Christian beliefs.

She didn't insult all Christians. She specified the sub-set who are extremists.

Have a read of:

https://www.globalministries.org/mee_re ... nism_koshy

John Hagee

No. 'Extreme' is an adjective defining 'religious views'. Considering how nasty she gets, it is only logical to read her comment as a slam against Christian views. If she's talking about a a small fraction of Christians, she should have said 'extremist' religious views.

What church do you attend that doesn't teach and preach the extraordinary importance of Israel and the coming of Christ?

[Frau Holle]

Why then does he go around condemning various deals (eg the Iran nuclear deal) and rulings (eg some from America's supreme court), if it were necessary for those things to happen? You might as well condemn an apple for falling off a tree due to gravity.

Because accepting that a mistake needed to happen to bring us to this point does not mean we should not do what we can to fix that mistake. Now that we have the wisdom to know better, we can do better.

So you agree with reparations?

As I said, yes. I don’t think it should be in perpetuity, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t have happened.

[Aletheia]

He is of the faith that everything happens for a reason and God set into motion those reasons.
So everything in all of history that has ever happened until now has been necessary.

Why then does he go around condemning various deals (eg the Iran nuclear deal) and rulings (eg some from America's supreme court), if it were necessary for those things to happen? You might as well condemn an apple for falling off a tree due to gravity.

Because accepting that a mistake needed to happen to bring us to this point does not mean we should not do what we can to fix that mistake. Now that we have the wisdom to know better, we can do better.

Imagine a parent who takes a hungry 8 year old, places them in the middle of a room surrounded by wonderful freshly cooked food, then leaves them alone and unsupervised for several hours.

The 8 year old touches one of the cakes then licks their finger. The parent then shoots the child in the foot.

Yes, sure, the child did something wrong and knew it was wrong. But the parent predicted it would happen - everything went according to the parent's plan.

Whose bears most of the moral responsibility for the child ending up with a maimed foot? The child or the parent?

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For those bad at analogies, I'm going to spell this one out:

If God not only created humans, but also human nature, the universe and the laws by which the universe would ensure that human nature could result in things like the Holocaust happening, and God also was able not only to predict that things like the Holocaust would happen before he even placed Adam&Eve on the planet, but he also made a plan that RELIED upon the specific event, "The Holocaust" happening...

Then God bears the moral responsibility for the resulting pain and misery at least as much as the worse of the concentration camp guards.

[Aletheia]

Can anyone imagine God drawing up plans for a complex contraption:


and showing the design to his fellow deities from other universes?

Thor: I'm not too bright, Yahweh, but what goes on in this yellow bit, where one marble knocks into another resulting in a wheel spinning around?

Yahweh: Ah, that's where I plan on more than 5 million people being tortured to death

Loki: I approve, I approve!

Thor: Is that absolutely necessary?

Yahweh: Of course. This is the best possible marble machine. Far better than Odin's design with all those frost giants.

Loki: You're just too stupid to understand the explanation, Thor

Thor: So you keep telling me, Loki Fárbauti's Son

[Frau Holle]

Why then does he go around condemning various deals (eg the Iran nuclear deal) and rulings (eg some from America's supreme court), if it were necessary for those things to happen? You might as well condemn an apple for falling off a tree due to gravity.

Because accepting that a mistake needed to happen to bring us to this point does not mean we should not do what we can to fix that mistake. Now that we have the wisdom to know better, we can do better.

Imagine a parent who takes a hungry 8 year old, places them in the middle of a room surrounded by wonderful freshly cooked food, then leaves them alone and unsupervised for several hours.

The 8 year old touches one of the cakes then licks their finger. The parent then shoots the child in the foot.

Yes, sure, the child did something wrong and knew it was wrong. But the parent predicted it would happen - everything went according to the parent's plan.

Whose bears most of the moral responsibility for the child ending up with a maimed foot? The child or the parent?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those bad at analogies, I'm going to spell this one out:

If God not only created humans, but also human nature, the universe and the laws by which the universe would ensure that human nature could result in things like the Holocaust happening, and God also was able not only to predict that things like the Holocaust would happen before he even placed Adam&Eve on the planet, but he also made a plan that RELIED upon the specific event, "The Holocaust" happening...

Then God bears the moral responsibility for the resulting pain and misery at least as much as the worse of the concentration camp guards.

Yes... that is the belief. It’s hard to understand for many people, and strange for them to accept that others believe this. But it is true.


Some people believe that everything happens for a reason, everyone who was tortured, raped, killed and set on fire had it done to them in the unfolding of a plan that had already been decided before time began.


The belief that humans have free will and at the same time will have their every move foreknown is not a contradiction, it’s a belief based on small glimpses of knowing your child will make a mistake, but allowing them to learn on their own because the lesson is more important than the pain.