Religious nut Senator Tom Cotton claims slavery and holocaust were necessary

[Aletheia]

Some people believe that everything happens for a reason, everyone who was tortured, raped, killed and set on fire had it done to them in the unfolding of a plan that had already been decided before time began.

The belief that humans have free will and at the same time will have their every move foreknown is not a contradiction, it’s a belief based on small glimpses of knowing your child will make a mistake, but allowing them to learn on their own because the lesson is more important than the pain.

There's a difference between letting a child burn a finger on a hot saucepan so that particular child, later in life, might avoid greater harm...

and allowing a child to be killed horrifically so that A DIFFERENT child might learn a lesson from it.

What is the difference if you think humanity is an entity ? ...
it’s almost irrelevant what a single person goes through in the grand scheme of things so long as it is God’s will.

John 10:14
I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me

John 10:3
To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Matthew 10:29-31
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

[Momto2boys973]

I also believe that everything happens for a reason. But that doesn’t mean that that was the only way to achieve that end. We still have free will and while we may have zero saying in our destination, we definitely choose the path we take. And if that path is long or short, easy or difficult, pleasant or painful that’s where our actions come into place.
What I find disturbing about his “the Holocaust was necessary” theory is that he’s claiming Hitler didn’t have the choice and therefore, how can we accuse him of wrongdoing if it was really “God’s doing”? Obviously he’s not off the hook just because God puts us in front of paths to reach a certain destination.

Of the Jewish Holocaust Cotton told the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette:

Ignoring the issue of whether the creation of the state of Israel now (instead of, say, in 500 years time) is sufficiently important to justify committing the Holocaust, were that an EITHER / OR choice, and that even the Jews wouldn't agree it was a good trade...

he's wrong from a logical point of view. It would only count as "necessary" in order to achieve it if it could have been achieved in no other possible way. And there are many possible ways it could have been achieved by an omnipotent deity who has (on occasion, it is claimed) taken a direct hand in things, destroying whole cities and manipulating the thoughts of leaders (such as Egypt's Pharaoh).

He is of the faith that everything happens for a reason and God set into motion those reasons.
So everything in all of history that has ever happened until now has been necessary.

[EarlGrayHot]

What a moron. And no, most people in this country are not right wing extremist evangelicals, thankfully.

[Frau Holle]

Of course Hitler had a choice, but he was evil.

In that sort of religious belief, the demons are put in our path for a reason also.

I also believe that everything happens for a reason. But that doesn’t mean that that was the only way to achieve that end. We still have free will and while we may have zero saying in our destination, we definitely choose the path we take. And if that path is long or short, easy or difficult, pleasant or painful that’s where our actions come into place.
What I find disturbing about his “the Holocaust was necessary” theory is that he’s claiming Hitler didn’t have the choice and therefore, how can we accuse him of wrongdoing if it was really “God’s doing”? Obviously he’s not off the hook just because God puts us in front of paths to reach a certain destination.

Ignoring the issue of whether the creation of the state of Israel now (instead of, say, in 500 years time) is sufficiently important to justify committing the Holocaust, were that an EITHER / OR choice, and that even the Jews wouldn't agree it was a good trade...

he's wrong from a logical point of view. It would only count as "necessary" in order to achieve it if it could have been achieved in no other possible way. And there are many possible ways it could have been achieved by an omnipotent deity who has (on occasion, it is claimed) taken a direct hand in things, destroying whole cities and manipulating the thoughts of leaders (such as Egypt's Pharaoh).

He is of the faith that everything happens for a reason and God set into motion those reasons.
So everything in all of history that has ever happened until now has been necessary.

[Frau Holle]

There's a difference between letting a child burn a finger on a hot saucepan so that particular child, later in life, might avoid greater harm...

and allowing a child to be killed horrifically so that A DIFFERENT child might learn a lesson from it.

What is the difference if you think humanity is an entity ? ...
it’s almost irrelevant what a single person goes through in the grand scheme of things so long as it is God’s will.

John 10:14
I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me

John 10:3
To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Matthew 10:29-31
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

That’s all talking about why Jesus should be their leader and how great everything will be in heaven. Part of the belief is that you will get the answers as to why so much suffering had to happen once you’re there.

There’s no promise that life on earth will be easy or free from pain. In fact, it is warned of.

[Aletheia]

What is the difference if you think humanity is an entity ? ...
it’s almost irrelevant what a single person goes through in the grand scheme of things so long as it is God’s will.

John 10:14
I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me

John 10:3
To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Matthew 10:29-31
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

That’s all talking about why Jesus should be their leader and how great everything will be in heaven. Part of the belief is that you will get the answers as to why so much suffering had to happen once you’re there.

There’s no promise that life on earth will be easy or free from pain. In fact, it is warned of.

It does imply that God/Jesus (depending on your sect) knows people as individuals, by name, rather than just treats them as replaceable parts of a larger entity: humanity.

Though to be fair, if you're looking at the Bible impartially, the view it most points towards is the basic unit God deals with / punishes is _the_tribe_. For example, his chosen people. His destroying cities down to the children of the offenders. The quotes about "visited upon the children, yea, unto the seventh generation". There are specific instances of him saying he knows a particular individual (usually a king or a prophet), but that's the exception. And a handful of instances where he makes species-level promises.

[Momto2boys973]

Exactly.
So by saying that it was necessary, it sounds as if he’s saying God didn’t give Hitler a choice. He “made him do it” because it was necessary. That to me seems as if he’s taking blame off Hitler

Of course Hitler had a choice, but he was evil.

In that sort of religious belief, the demons are put in our path for a reason also.

I also believe that everything happens for a reason. But that doesn’t mean that that was the only way to achieve that end. We still have free will and while we may have zero saying in our destination, we definitely choose the path we take. And if that path is long or short, easy or difficult, pleasant or painful that’s where our actions come into place.
What I find disturbing about his “the Holocaust was necessary” theory is that he’s claiming Hitler didn’t have the choice and therefore, how can we accuse him of wrongdoing if it was really “God’s doing”? Obviously he’s not off the hook just because God puts us in front of paths to reach a certain destination.

He is of the faith that everything happens for a reason and God set into motion those reasons.
So everything in all of history that has ever happened until now has been necessary.

[Momto2boys973]

That is true.
I don’t believe the purpose of life is suffering, though. God made many beautiful things for us to enjoy. But this isn’t a world of leisure, it’s a world of hard work and growth. And for that, pain is sometimes necessary. We may not always be able to choose the challenges we face, but we choose how we face them. That’s where our free will comes in.

What is the difference if you think humanity is an entity ? ...
it’s almost irrelevant what a single person goes through in the grand scheme of things so long as it is God’s will.

John 10:14
I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me

John 10:3
To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Matthew 10:29-31
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

That’s all talking about why Jesus should be their leader and how great everything will be in heaven. Part of the belief is that you will get the answers as to why so much suffering had to happen once you’re there.

There’s no promise that life on earth will be easy or free from pain. In fact, it is warned of.

[Frau Holle]

No, it’s that God made demons too.

Exactly.
So by saying that it was necessary, it sounds as if he’s saying God didn’t give Hitler a choice. He “made him do it” because it was necessary. That to me seems as if he’s taking blame off Hitler

Of course Hitler had a choice, but he was evil.

In that sort of religious belief, the demons are put in our path for a reason also.

I also believe that everything happens for a reason. But that doesn’t mean that that was the only way to achieve that end. We still have free will and while we may have zero saying in our destination, we definitely choose the path we take. And if that path is long or short, easy or difficult, pleasant or painful that’s where our actions come into place.
What I find disturbing about his “the Holocaust was necessary” theory is that he’s claiming Hitler didn’t have the choice and therefore, how can we accuse him of wrongdoing if it was really “God’s doing”? Obviously he’s not off the hook just because God puts us in front of paths to reach a certain destination.

[Momto2boys973]

Ah, well. That’s probably why I can’t see eye to eye on that one. I don’t believe in demons. I know Kabbalah talks about certain demons, but they’re definitely not humans with a free will just created “demonic”. They’re different entities and like angels, lack free will.
But it’s pretty much the same. If God made him that way, then it’s not really his fault that he did what he was supposed to do, right? I mean, if God made him evil for that specific purpose, then he had no choice in being good and he had to fulfill that purpose.

No, it’s that God made demons too.

Exactly.
So by saying that it was necessary, it sounds as if he’s saying God didn’t give Hitler a choice. He “made him do it” because it was necessary. That to me seems as if he’s taking blame off Hitler

Of course Hitler had a choice, but he was evil.

In that sort of religious belief, the demons are put in our path for a reason also.