Socialism

Forum rules
Keep News and Politics about News and Politics.

Do not post full articles from other websites. Always link back to the source

Discuss things respectfully and take into account that each person has a different opinion.

Remember that this is a place for everyone to enjoy. Don’t try and run people off of the site. If you are upset with someone then utilize the foe feature.

Report when things come up.

Personal attacks are against guidelines however attacks need to be directed at a member on the forum for it to be against guidelines. Lying is not against guidelines, it’s hard for us to prove someone even did lie.

Once a topic is locked we consider the issue handled and no longer respond to new reports on the topic.
AuntFlo
Duchess
Duchess
Posts: 1530
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:02 am

Unread post

water<wine wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:00 pm
Lemons wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:44 pm
water<wine wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:44 pm for those who support Bernie, EXPLAIN THIS MAJOR FLIP FLOP. does it scare you he admitted open borders and socialism don't work together, said it would make everyone in the US poorer and now a few years later he's in favor of open borders?

I support anyonebuttrump. I haven't paid much attention to Bernie because I didn't think he had a chance. But now that he does, I listened to him a little last night. He is promising free childcare, free healthcare, free trade school and state college. He wants billionaires taxed at a higher rate and claims the top three people in this country own as much as the bottom 50% of the country.

Trump promised to repeal and replace Obamacare with something better. It didn't happen. Bernie's Medicare for all probably won't happen. Free childcare probably won't happen. I think Ivanka was supposed to work on that, I haven't heard any updates.

Trump is on the extreme right, Bernie is on the extreme left. Neither are going to get their way 100%. We have a congress and court.
Even if bernie taxed all billionaires 90% it wouldnt be enough to pay for all of his entitlements. He finally admitted any family making over 29k per year would pay taxes for medicaid for all. thats just ONE of many entitlements he has planned.

however, that wasnt my question. Bernie in 2015 clearly stated open borders (and yes, eliminating ice/BP, having no wall, ceasing deportations and giving welfare to illegals IS OPEN BORDERS. ) would not work with socialism. He said the entire 3rd world would come here if we waved that giant carrot in front of their eyes.

how do you feel about him now flip flopping supporting open borders? The math didnt change. He is promoting something he knows will fail, does that bother you?
Every politician flip flops on key points to pander to their base

Have you been living under a rock?!

This has been happening since Washington 😂
Della
Princess
Princess
Posts: 21980
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:46 pm

Unread post

water<wine wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:21 pm
Thelma Harper wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:44 pm "Senator Bernie Sanders pushed back to clarify his position on immigration on Sunday after he was asked in Iowa about his reported support for open borders."

"I'm afraid you may be getting your information wrong," said Sanders, an independent from Vermont who is currently seeking the Democratic nomination to unseat President Donald Trump in 2020, The Washington Post reported. "I think what we need is comprehensive immigration reform," he said."

"Oh my god, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world. And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it," the senator added."


"Sanders, however, has long criticized open borders. In 2015, he referred to them as a "right wing proposal" pushed forward by the wealthy Koch brothers. "You're doing away with the concept of a nation state, and I don't think there's any country in the world which believes in that," he said in an interview with Ezra Klein of Vox."

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders ... on-1388767
what are you trying to prove? that he flip flopped? good job.



yes, giving medicaid to illegals is "immigration reform" lol

Bernie Sanders' immigration plan would put moratorium on deportations, end ICE raids

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics ... index.html
:lol: :lol: :lol:
306/232

But I'm still the winner! They lied! They cheated! They stole the election!
User avatar
Frau Holle
Regent
Regent
Posts: 4852
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:32 pm
Location: Far away

Unread post

You can have both.
“ I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night “ - Sarah Williams
User avatar
Linda_Runs
Donated
Donated
Regent
Regent
Posts: 3836
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:38 am
Location: Nut House

Unread post

water<wine wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:05 pm Imagine a work party, everyone brings a dish to the potluck. 1, 2, maybe 3 people forget. Not a big deal, there's still enough food to go around right? everyone gets a little less, but there's enough to survive right because you have enough people who did their part and brought something.

Now imagine all of the employees from surrounding business show up bring nothing but help themselves to everyone else's dishes, you quickly run out of food.

this is what would happen with socialism + open borders.

BERNIE KNOWS THIS, HE SAID IT 5 YEARS AGO!!!
That is exactly what happens. The Canadian welfare system is very good, making Canada a wonderful place to live for free if you are coming from a country in destitute, dirt poverty. While I could not live on welfare, to people coming from say Syria or Somalia, on the Canadian welfare system they live better than they could dream to in their home countries.

While I support immigration, and I think to a point we have a moral and ethical responsibility to take in refugees, we need to put limits and better screening for those who wish to enter. On the domestic side, when a family with no income and five kids can get up to $3,000 per month in cash, plus another $1,000 to $2,000 in benefits, free healthcare and an entire bunch of other benefits, some just decide not to work. I actually don't blame them!

Who pays for all of this? Us tax payers. Canada is only slightly socialist where many working people pay over 50% of their earned incomes in various taxes. That is what a socialist orientated system causes.
User avatar
Quorra2.0
Regent
Regent
Posts: 4822
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:39 am

Unread post

Linda_Runs wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:47 am
water<wine wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:05 pm Imagine a work party, everyone brings a dish to the potluck. 1, 2, maybe 3 people forget. Not a big deal, there's still enough food to go around right? everyone gets a little less, but there's enough to survive right because you have enough people who did their part and brought something.

Now imagine all of the employees from surrounding business show up bring nothing but help themselves to everyone else's dishes, you quickly run out of food.

this is what would happen with socialism + open borders.

BERNIE KNOWS THIS, HE SAID IT 5 YEARS AGO!!!
That is exactly what happens. The Canadian welfare system is very good, making Canada a wonderful place to live for free if you are coming from a country in destitute, dirt poverty. While I could not live on welfare, to people coming from say Syria or Somalia, on the Canadian welfare system they live better than they could dream to in their home countries.

While I support immigration, and I think to a point we have a moral and ethical responsibility to take in refugees, we need to put limits and better screening for those who wish to enter. On the domestic side, when a family with no income and five kids can get up to $3,000 per month in cash, plus another $1,000 to $2,000 in benefits, free healthcare and an entire bunch of other benefits, some just decide not to work. I actually don't blame them!

Who pays for all of this? Us tax payers. Canada is only slightly socialist where many working people pay over 50% of their earned incomes in various taxes. That is what a socialist orientated system causes.
50% is really high imo. Do you think this effects morale of people?
User avatar
Linda_Runs
Donated
Donated
Regent
Regent
Posts: 3836
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:38 am
Location: Nut House

Unread post

Quorra2.0 wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:06 am
Linda_Runs wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:47 am
water<wine wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:05 pm Imagine a work party, everyone brings a dish to the potluck. 1, 2, maybe 3 people forget. Not a big deal, there's still enough food to go around right? everyone gets a little less, but there's enough to survive right because you have enough people who did their part and brought something.

Now imagine all of the employees from surrounding business show up bring nothing but help themselves to everyone else's dishes, you quickly run out of food.

this is what would happen with socialism + open borders.

BERNIE KNOWS THIS, HE SAID IT 5 YEARS AGO!!!
That is exactly what happens. The Canadian welfare system is very good, making Canada a wonderful place to live for free if you are coming from a country in destitute, dirt poverty. While I could not live on welfare, to people coming from say Syria or Somalia, on the Canadian welfare system they live better than they could dream to in their home countries.

While I support immigration, and I think to a point we have a moral and ethical responsibility to take in refugees, we need to put limits and better screening for those who wish to enter. On the domestic side, when a family with no income and five kids can get up to $3,000 per month in cash, plus another $1,000 to $2,000 in benefits, free healthcare and an entire bunch of other benefits, some just decide not to work. I actually don't blame them!

Who pays for all of this? Us tax payers. Canada is only slightly socialist where many working people pay over 50% of their earned incomes in various taxes. That is what a socialist orientated system causes.
50% is really high imo. Do you think this effects morale of people?
When all things considered, it is about 50%. Our personal income tax is about 33%, plus there are a myriad of other taxes such as health services tax, fuel tax, carbon tax, property tax, capital gains tax, goods and services tax and so on.

So to answer your question, Canadian are tired of being taxed to death with more and more tax initiatives coming up every year.
Pjmm
Donated
Donated
Princess
Princess
Posts: 18971
Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 6:31 am

Unread post

Lemons wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:16 pm
Linda_Runs wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:32 am
AuntFlo wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:15 am I would like to see a flat 10% tax across the board

Chip away at our trillions in debt and give out healthcare with the option of buying healthcare if you want

Basic healthcare should be a right

Nobody should be turned away for life sustaining medication or go into massive amounts of debt for life saving surgery

At that point you’re putting a price on peoples lives
I agree that basic healthcare should be taxpayer provided. Looking north to Canada that has a struggling healthcare system that is not even a national one anymore, the cost is roughly 10 times the defense budget.
You’re lucky your country puts your taxes into healthcare not your military.

The best healthcare system for our country would be a version of obamacare. Most people keep their insurance through their employers. Other random people would be pooled together to get a group rate. If someone can’t afford the premiums they would get a subsidy.

Republicans had to get hateful thoughts and freak out because it was a requirement. Now it looks like younger voters might decide Medicare for all is,the way to go. Most of our lawmakers are so old they’re already on Medicare.
Employer insurance is all well and good until your small businessman has to get crap insurance for his employees because he doesn't have 25 or 50 employees and so what he can afford is breaking his back. Even our school district the teachers pay a lot for the crap insurance they get. Employer given insurance isn't going to work until the health insurances can lower rates. Which probably won't happen until the drug companies do. And the bottom feeder lawyers stop advertising malpractice on daytime TV.
User avatar
Linda_Runs
Donated
Donated
Regent
Regent
Posts: 3836
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:38 am
Location: Nut House

Unread post

Pjmm wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:32 am
Lemons wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:16 pm
Linda_Runs wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:32 am

I agree that basic healthcare should be taxpayer provided. Looking north to Canada that has a struggling healthcare system that is not even a national one anymore, the cost is roughly 10 times the defense budget.
You’re lucky your country puts your taxes into healthcare not your military.

The best healthcare system for our country would be a version of obamacare. Most people keep their insurance through their employers. Other random people would be pooled together to get a group rate. If someone can’t afford the premiums they would get a subsidy.

Republicans had to get hateful thoughts and freak out because it was a requirement. Now it looks like younger voters might decide Medicare for all is,the way to go. Most of our lawmakers are so old they’re already on Medicare.
Employer insurance is all well and good until your small businessman has to get crap insurance for his employees because he doesn't have 25 or 50 employees and so what he can afford is breaking his back. Even our school district the teachers pay a lot for the crap insurance they get. Employer given insurance isn't going to work until the health insurances can lower rates. Which probably won't happen until the drug companies do. And the bottom feeder lawyers stop advertising malpractice on daytime TV.
Everyone following this topic should read this reply you posted above.
User avatar
Quorra2.0
Regent
Regent
Posts: 4822
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:39 am

Unread post

Linda_Runs wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:31 am
Quorra2.0 wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:06 am
Linda_Runs wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:47 am

That is exactly what happens. The Canadian welfare system is very good, making Canada a wonderful place to live for free if you are coming from a country in destitute, dirt poverty. While I could not live on welfare, to people coming from say Syria or Somalia, on the Canadian welfare system they live better than they could dream to in their home countries.

While I support immigration, and I think to a point we have a moral and ethical responsibility to take in refugees, we need to put limits and better screening for those who wish to enter. On the domestic side, when a family with no income and five kids can get up to $3,000 per month in cash, plus another $1,000 to $2,000 in benefits, free healthcare and an entire bunch of other benefits, some just decide not to work. I actually don't blame them!

Who pays for all of this? Us tax payers. Canada is only slightly socialist where many working people pay over 50% of their earned incomes in various taxes. That is what a socialist orientated system causes.
50% is really high imo. Do you think this effects morale of people?
When all things considered, it is about 50%. Our personal income tax is about 33%, plus there are a myriad of other taxes such as health services tax, fuel tax, carbon tax, property tax, capital gains tax, goods and services tax and so on.

So to answer your question, Canadian are tired of being taxed to death with more and more tax initiatives coming up every year.
Thank you for your reply. It’s something I’ve been curious about for a while.

So many are in the work to survive category. Aside from my concerns with what could happen if Sanders implements his end goal plan and the uncertainty of the direction future elected officials could take it, I have concerns over how it would effect our economy as well as our overall morale. So many already work to survive. It’s seen more common in lower income brackets. There’s absolutely no way to implement such a level of change without something significantly raising taxes and there’s always a trickle down effect. I am concerned that more and more will end up feeling they are just working to survive. We, US, do a disservice by trying to compare the positive outcomes in other countries, such as Nordic countries, when our whole infrastructure, including society and culture, is not similar. It’s like trying to turn an apple into a tomato just because they are both fruits.
User avatar
Linda_Runs
Donated
Donated
Regent
Regent
Posts: 3836
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:38 am
Location: Nut House

Unread post

Quorra2.0 wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:20 am
Linda_Runs wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:31 am
Quorra2.0 wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:06 am

50% is really high imo. Do you think this effects morale of people?
When all things considered, it is about 50%. Our personal income tax is about 33%, plus there are a myriad of other taxes such as health services tax, fuel tax, carbon tax, property tax, capital gains tax, goods and services tax and so on.

So to answer your question, Canadian are tired of being taxed to death with more and more tax initiatives coming up every year.
Thank you for your reply. It’s something I’ve been curious about for a while.

So many are in the work to survive category. Aside from my concerns with what could happen if Sanders implements his end goal plan and the uncertainty of the direction future elected officials could take it, I have concerns over how it would effect our economy as well as our overall morale. So many already work to survive. It’s seen more common in lower income brackets. There’s absolutely no way to implement such a level of change without something significantly raising taxes and there’s always a trickle down effect. I am concerned that more and more will end up feeling they are just working to survive. We, US, do a disservice by trying to compare the positive outcomes in other countries, such as Nordic countries, when our whole infrastructure, including society and culture, is not similar. It’s like trying to turn an apple into a tomato just because they are both fruits.
I heard an estimate that a national health care system in the U.S. similar to Canada's would cost in the area of three trillion dollars, or about $8,000 or so per citizen per year. Very similar to what many Americans pay to HMOs and that middle class Canadians pay in health care taxes now.

I was in Florida two weeks ago and talking to some there about the cost of living. Florida is very expensive to live in and quite taxed for an American state. Even the price of gas is not much less than in Canada. So the question is, what will the government tax to support a national health care system?

For anyone's information, Canada does NOT have a national medicare system; it is provincially (state) run and regionally controlled.
Locked Previous topicNext topic