Border Walls

[Olioxenfree]

Protecting our border isn't immoral and forcing families to take a dangerous route?? How about they come in like everyone else?

Who is this "everybody else"? The people from countries that have a much easier time getting a visa? You don't think they would just go through the checkpoints if that was a practical option? The wait time for just the processing of an asylum seeker or refugee visa from Central America is 15 months. A green card can take over 3 years. It also costs a lot of money. When you are in a desperate situation and you or your family will not survive that long. If it were as simple as going through a checkpoint, people would not be walking through the desert in the first place.
In the 90s a 14 mile stretch of wall was built along the border covering the most popular crossing points. After it's construction, people didn't stop coming, they just took more dangerous routes, through rougher parts of the desert and by boat. The number of undocumented immigrants did not drop (especially since most undocumented immigrants never illegally cross the border), but the number of immigrants who died trying to cross the border skyrocketed.

So that excuses crossing illegally?

umm... no. It doesn't.

I'd like to know what you would do in their situation.

[Olioxenfree]

How is going through the check points more dangerous?

You don't think they would just go through the checkpoints if that was a practical option? The wait time for just the processing of an asylum seeker or refugee visa from Central America is 15 months. A green card can take over 3 years. It also costs a lot of money. When you are in a desperate situation and you or your family will not survive that long. If it were as simple as going through a checkpoint, people would not be walking through the desert in the first place.
In the 90s a 14 mile stretch of wall was built along the border covering the most popular crossing points. After it's construction, people didn't stop coming, they just took more dangerous routes, through rougher parts of the desert and by boat. The number of undocumented immigrants did not drop (especially since most undocumented immigrants never illegally cross the border), but the number of immigrants who died trying to cross the border skyrocketed.

It's not a question of practical! So that perfectly justifies doing whatever you want and illegally sneaking into a country...because they have to wait. Just like my grandparents had to. Just like everyone who goes through the process legally has to.

A homeless man is hungry and needs somewhere to sleep, so he can just kick in your front door, make a sandwich and crawl in bed with your children and you're not going to stop him? Call the police to take him out? Have him arrested? LOL

Same concept only on a macro scale. There's a process for a reason. To make sure everyone is accommodated and that there isn't chaos. There's only so many facilities, so many judges, so much aid to go around. That's why there's laws. EVERYONE would like to come here. This is a fantastic place to live. Unfortunately we can't fit the whole world in our country.

Not everyone would like to come here. Most people who come here don't even want to come here, but they choose it over the death of their children. Under what circumstances did your grandparents come here? Your analogy is completely asinine, no one's getting in bed with your children, they simply want to exist in the same country as you.

[Valentina327]

You don't think they would just go through the checkpoints if that was a practical option? The wait time for just the processing of an asylum seeker or refugee visa from Central America is 15 months. A green card can take over 3 years. It also costs a lot of money. When you are in a desperate situation and you or your family will not survive that long. If it were as simple as going through a checkpoint, people would not be walking through the desert in the first place.
In the 90s a 14 mile stretch of wall was built along the border covering the most popular crossing points. After it's construction, people didn't stop coming, they just took more dangerous routes, through rougher parts of the desert and by boat. The number of undocumented immigrants did not drop (especially since most undocumented immigrants never illegally cross the border), but the number of immigrants who died trying to cross the border skyrocketed.

It's not a question of practical! So that perfectly justifies doing whatever you want and illegally sneaking into a country...because they have to wait. Just like my grandparents had to. Just like everyone who goes through the process legally has to.

A homeless man is hungry and needs somewhere to sleep, so he can just kick in your front door, make a sandwich and crawl in bed with your children and you're not going to stop him? Call the police to take him out? Have him arrested? LOL

Same concept only on a macro scale. There's a process for a reason. To make sure everyone is accommodated and that there isn't chaos. There's only so many facilities, so many judges, so much aid to go around. That's why there's laws. EVERYONE would like to come here. This is a fantastic place to live. Unfortunately we can't fit the whole world in our country.

Not everyone would like to come here. Most people who come here don't even want to come here, but they choose it over the death of their children. Under what circumstances did your grandparents come here? Your analogy is completely asinine, no one's getting in bed with your children, they simply want to exist in the same country as you.

You taking that literally is asinine. You're unfamiliar with an analogy?

What do you mean under what circumstances? They were immigrants. They came through Ellis island. They were counted. The family was documented. I have a copy of the list somewhere that they note the family and their ages at the time they came here. They had a hearing. They were sworn in. It was the proudest day of their lives. I found paperwork that one of them got a letter and had to go for extra hearings because there were questions even after he had his papers. They complied with what was asked of them and they were damned glad and grateful to do it.

[Deleted User 203]

I can't imagine having my family and myself go to another country where resources are wearing thin for its natural born/naturalized citizens and assume that I can just mosey on in without a hitch.

I can't fathom that if I knew this particular country had rigid restrictions on border crossing, would put me and my family into a detention center for weeks...months..., and that it was costly to even attempt to go through the legal channels to become a naturalized citizen that we'd still make the trek.

That said, border walls alone will not work well and in some instances, will not work at all. Our President has used THIS issue with a sales pitch rhetoric when he speaks about it and IMO, insults the intelligence of Americans who can see for themselves that the wall alone won't cut it.

I don't feel it's immoral to ask those who are attempting to immigrate here to go through the proper channels. I DO feel it's immoral when some on the political Left excuse and exonerate the actions of those immigrants who've committed crimes while in this country.

But a border wall being successful on its own? Never going to happen.

[Deleted User 203]

It's not a question of practical! So that perfectly justifies doing whatever you want and illegally sneaking into a country...because they have to wait. Just like my grandparents had to. Just like everyone who goes through the process legally has to.

A homeless man is hungry and needs somewhere to sleep, so he can just kick in your front door, make a sandwich and crawl in bed with your children and you're not going to stop him? Call the police to take him out? Have him arrested? LOL

Same concept only on a macro scale. There's a process for a reason. To make sure everyone is accommodated and that there isn't chaos. There's only so many facilities, so many judges, so much aid to go around. That's why there's laws. EVERYONE would like to come here. This is a fantastic place to live. Unfortunately we can't fit the whole world in our country.

Not everyone would like to come here. Most people who come here don't even want to come here, but they choose it over the death of their children. Under what circumstances did your grandparents come here? Your analogy is completely asinine, no one's getting in bed with your children, they simply want to exist in the same country as you.

You taking that literally is asinine. You're unfamiliar with an analogy?

What do you mean under what circumstances? They were immigrants. They came through Ellis island. They were counted. The family was documented. I have a copy of the list somewhere that they note the family and their ages at the time they came here. They had a hearing. They were sworn in. It was the proudest day of their lives. I found paperwork that one of them got a letter and had to go for extra hearings because there were questions even after he had his papers. They complied with what was asked of them and they were damned glad and grateful to do it.

I know of so many who immigrated here from other countries (as I am sure many of us do), including Mexico and those south of the border, that did so through the proper channels.

I can only assume it's tougher now (possibly because the numbers of those immigrating are higher than before? I don't know) and the cost is much higher.

My husband's late Mom came here from Reykjavic, Iceland in the mid 1950's, and landed in Baltimore Maryland where my husband was born in 1957. She went through all of the proper channels to do so and when she became a citizen of the U.S., she was overjoyed and beyond happy.

A friend of ours...same thing with his late parent's, who came from Germany.

Another friend...Italy. Another friend...France. Two more...South America.

And so on and so forth.

None of them assumed that they could be here illegally. None of them attempted to come into this country through any means possible, including illegally.

[Della]

How is going through the check points more dangerous?

You don't think they would just go through the checkpoints if that was a practical option? The wait time for just the processing of an asylum seeker or refugee visa from Central America is 15 months. A green card can take over 3 years. It also costs a lot of money. When you are in a desperate situation and you or your family will not survive that long. If it were as simple as going through a checkpoint, people would not be walking through the desert in the first place.
In the 90s a 14 mile stretch of wall was built along the border covering the most popular crossing points. After it's construction, people didn't stop coming, they just took more dangerous routes, through rougher parts of the desert and by boat. The number of undocumented immigrants did not drop (especially since most undocumented immigrants never illegally cross the border), but the number of immigrants who died trying to cross the border skyrocketed.

It's not a question of practical! So that perfectly justifies doing whatever you want and illegally sneaking into a country...because they have to wait. Just like my grandparents had to. Just like everyone who goes through the process legally has to.

A homeless man is hungry and needs somewhere to sleep, so he can just kick in your front door, make a sandwich and crawl in bed with your children and you're not going to stop him? Call the police to take him out? Have him arrested? LOL

Same concept only on a macro scale. There's a process for a reason. To make sure everyone is accommodated and that there isn't chaos. There's only so many facilities, so many judges, so much aid to go around. That's why there's laws. EVERYONE would like to come here. This is a fantastic place to live. Unfortunately we can't fit the whole world in our country.

My grandparents left Syria, traveled to Europe, got passage on a ship, and wound up at Ellis Island. The immigration process was different and much less expensive back then. I'm so glad they got to come here.

[Olioxenfree]

It's not a question of practical! So that perfectly justifies doing whatever you want and illegally sneaking into a country...because they have to wait. Just like my grandparents had to. Just like everyone who goes through the process legally has to.

A homeless man is hungry and needs somewhere to sleep, so he can just kick in your front door, make a sandwich and crawl in bed with your children and you're not going to stop him? Call the police to take him out? Have him arrested? LOL

Same concept only on a macro scale. There's a process for a reason. To make sure everyone is accommodated and that there isn't chaos. There's only so many facilities, so many judges, so much aid to go around. That's why there's laws. EVERYONE would like to come here. This is a fantastic place to live. Unfortunately we can't fit the whole world in our country.

Not everyone would like to come here. Most people who come here don't even want to come here, but they choose it over the death of their children. Under what circumstances did your grandparents come here? Your analogy is completely asinine, no one's getting in bed with your children, they simply want to exist in the same country as you.

You taking that literally is asinine. You're unfamiliar with an analogy?

What do you mean under what circumstances? They were immigrants. They came through Ellis island. They were counted. The family was documented. I have a copy of the list somewhere that they note the family and their ages at the time they came here. They had a hearing. They were sworn in. It was the proudest day of their lives. I found paperwork that one of them got a letter and had to go for extra hearings because there were questions even after he had his papers. They complied with what was asked of them and they were damned glad and grateful to do it.

I am aware of what an analogy is, yours just isn't a good one as there is nothing immigrants are doing that is comparable to what you described. Do you have any idea how easy it was to immigrate through Ellis Island? It was literally you show up, answer questions, and pass a health exam. 98 percent of immigrants who showed up were allowed in. If the process was the same now, we'd have far less people immigrating illegally.

[Olioxenfree]

Not everyone would like to come here. Most people who come here don't even want to come here, but they choose it over the death of their children. Under what circumstances did your grandparents come here? Your analogy is completely asinine, no one's getting in bed with your children, they simply want to exist in the same country as you.

You taking that literally is asinine. You're unfamiliar with an analogy?

What do you mean under what circumstances? They were immigrants. They came through Ellis island. They were counted. The family was documented. I have a copy of the list somewhere that they note the family and their ages at the time they came here. They had a hearing. They were sworn in. It was the proudest day of their lives. I found paperwork that one of them got a letter and had to go for extra hearings because there were questions even after he had his papers. They complied with what was asked of them and they were damned glad and grateful to do it.

I know of so many who immigrated here from other countries (as I am sure many of us do), including Mexico and those south of the border, that did so through the proper channels.

I can only assume it's tougher now (possibly because the numbers of those immigrating are higher than before? I don't know) and the cost is much higher.

My husband's late Mom came here from Reykjavic, Iceland in the mid 1950's, and landed in Baltimore Maryland where my husband was born in 1957. She went through all of the proper channels to do so and when she became a citizen of the U.S., she was overjoyed and beyond happy.

A friend of ours...same thing with his late parent's, who came from Germany.

Another friend...Italy. Another friend...France. Two more...South America.

And so on and so forth.

None of them assumed that they could be here illegally. None of them attempted to come into this country through any means possible, including illegally.

You do realize that the immigration process was entirely different in the 50s, right?

[Olioxenfree]

I can't imagine having my family and myself go to another country where resources are wearing thin for its natural born/naturalized citizens and assume that I can just mosey on in without a hitch.

I can't fathom that if I knew this particular country had rigid restrictions on border crossing, would put me and my family into a detention center for weeks...months..., and that it was costly to even attempt to go through the legal channels to become a naturalized citizen that we'd still make the trek.

That said, border walls alone will not work well and in some instances, will not work at all. Our President has used THIS issue with a sales pitch rhetoric when he speaks about it and IMO, insults the intelligence of Americans who can see for themselves that the wall alone won't cut it.

I don't feel it's immoral to ask those who are attempting to immigrate here to go through the proper channels. I DO feel it's immoral when some on the political Left excuse and exonerate the actions of those immigrants who've committed crimes while in this country.

But a border wall being successful on its own? Never going to happen.

You probably also can't imagine Your sons being kidnapped, your daughters being raped and murdered, being forced to join a gang by someone who has a gun to your parents heads, or your children being days away from dying of starvation or a preventable disease. So of course you can't imagine the motivations of people so desperate to save their families that they would take an extremely dangerous trip and risk everything to cross into the U.S., because I assure you they don't just "mosey" over the border.

[Valentina327]

Not everyone would like to come here. Most people who come here don't even want to come here, but they choose it over the death of their children. Under what circumstances did your grandparents come here? Your analogy is completely asinine, no one's getting in bed with your children, they simply want to exist in the same country as you.

You taking that literally is asinine. You're unfamiliar with an analogy?

What do you mean under what circumstances? They were immigrants. They came through Ellis island. They were counted. The family was documented. I have a copy of the list somewhere that they note the family and their ages at the time they came here. They had a hearing. They were sworn in. It was the proudest day of their lives. I found paperwork that one of them got a letter and had to go for extra hearings because there were questions even after he had his papers. They complied with what was asked of them and they were damned glad and grateful to do it.

I am aware of what an analogy is, yours just isn't a good one as there is nothing immigrants are doing that is comparable to what you described. Do you have any idea how easy it was to immigrate through Ellis Island? It was literally you show up, answer questions, and pass a health exam. 98 percent of immigrants who showed up were allowed in. If the process was the same now, we'd have far less people immigrating illegally.

As the population grows, there needs to be order. Resources have to be allocated. What was the court call in 1915 vs. the court call in 2019? What was the population of the U.S. around WW1 vs. now? As the population increases so do the rules by which we live by. That's not just the case with immmigration either. There are additional laws put on the books constantly as the needs of the population change. If that was the case that rules were stagnant, we could send Congress home and save ourselves $175K plus per head.

I know you struggle with analogy, but do you run your family the same now with 5 children as you did with 1? Of course you don't. You have more children to take care of so you have to do things in a different process. You have to allocate your resources differently, both time and financial. Same for the country on a macro scale.