Trump live just called birthright citizenship "frankly ridiculous".

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morgan
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Was this question ever answered?
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:13 pm Were you in Mexico illegally when you birthed your kids?
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:07 pm Luckily, your opinion doesn’t change the Constitution.
Either you grant nationality by both or by ancestry. Since America doesn’t grant citizenship by ancestry, it has to be by birth.
Unless you’re willing to grant citizenship to all the kids born abroad that can show that their parents or grandparents are/were American.

Would you be happier if kids like mine were granted citizenship even though they were born outside the U.S?
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:28 pm I'm of the opinion that babies born in America to parents who are in America illegally should not be granted citizenship.
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morgan
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It depends. Are you in Mexico illegally? No? Then your kids should be Mexicans. If you're in America illegally, your kids should not be Americans. I don't see why this is so complicated for some of you.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:18 pm So you’re saying that my children should be American citizens even though they were born abroad because I am an American citizen?
Diamepphyre wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:09 pm
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:04 pm Trump says he is seriously looking at ending birthright citizenship
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... 2UlRom-Tvo
It IS ridiculous. If the parents are not already naturalized citizens, then the child should not be granted citizenship - except in its own parents' country of origin.
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No, I have dual citizenship.
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:32 pm Was this question ever answered?
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:13 pm Were you in Mexico illegally when you birthed your kids?
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:07 pm Luckily, your opinion doesn’t change the Constitution.
Either you grant nationality by both or by ancestry. Since America doesn’t grant citizenship by ancestry, it has to be by birth.
Unless you’re willing to grant citizenship to all the kids born abroad that can show that their parents or grandparents are/were American.

Would you be happier if kids like mine were granted citizenship even though they were born outside the U.S?

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morgan
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Okay. Which means you are legal and so are your kids.

Be legal. Do it right.

Not legal? Bye.

God I hope Birthright Citizenship gets revoked. It's "frankly ridiculous."
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:40 pm No, I have dual citizenship.
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:32 pm Was this question ever answered?
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:13 pm Were you in Mexico illegally when you birthed your kids?

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morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:33 pm It depends. Are you in Mexico illegally? No? Then your kids should be Mexicans. If you're in America illegally, your kids should not be Americans. I don't see why this is so complicated for some of you.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:18 pm So you’re saying that my children should be American citizens even though they were born abroad because I am an American citizen?
Diamepphyre wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:09 pm

It IS ridiculous. If the parents are not already naturalized citizens, then the child should not be granted citizenship - except in its own parents' country of origin.
I think why you are confused is because you seem to think there are two classes of people in the US - citizens and illegal immigrants - which totally discounts the hundreds of thousands of legal green card and visa holders. In M2B's case, she is a US citizen (has said so multiple times). She has not lived in the US for enough years for her children to be granted US citizenship. This is the case for many expats.
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water<wine wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:05 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:29 pm Well, but international law is international law. Every country has to choose between two citizenship conditions: jus soli (right of soil) or jus sanguinis (right of ancestry). No in between. So if America has jus soli, then that means that a person born in America territory is an American citizen. If America has jus sanguinis then that means the descendants of American citizens have a right to citizenship. As of now, America does put restrictions on rights of ancestry. My children, for example, aren’t American citizens simply because I am. I would have to prove a minimum amount of residency in the U.S in order for them to qualify. Because the U.S Constitution doesn’t grant jus sanguinis, just jus soli.

Even with those clear laws, it sometimes happen that a person has no right of citizenship. Let’s say, for example, that a person whose parents come from a country with jus soli and is born in a country with jus sanguinis, neither country will grant nationality and that’s a problem. So if a country takes it upon itself to choose one and then add its own restrictions, that problem increases. So it’s either one or the other, you can’t have it both ways (or as some of you seem to wish, neither way). And, as I said, each has its pros and cons and each can be used in ways that others will deem “unfair”. Well, that’s life.

And, OMG... you do know that at the time the 2nd Amendment was written assault weapons didn’t exist? That’s the point.
Here’s the text of the 14th Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
So... could you show us where does it say explicitly that “no children of foreigners/aliens would have citizenship by birth”...
water<wine wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:16 pm
Jacob Howard, author of the 14th amendment:

"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

you might be thinking subject to the partial jurisdiction of the USA is enough, nope.

Howard also made clear that simply being born in the U.S. was not enough to be a citizen when he opposed an amendment to specifically exclude Native Americans from the Citizenship Clause. He said, “Indians born within the limits of the United States and who maintain their tribal relations, are not, in the sense of this amendment, born subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.” Native Americans maintain their tribal relations so they are not “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” Senator Edgar Cowan said, “It is perfectly clear that the mere fact that a man is born in the country has not heretofore entitled him to the right to exercise political power.”
Weird, you forgot to cite your source for the bottom portion. An article by the totally credible, not at all racist and white nationalist expert on constitutional law Steve F***ing King, lol.

https://steveking.house.gov/media-cente ... -amendment
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My kids are Mexican, but they’re children of an American citizen.
And I explained water for wine, there are 2 ways in which a country can choose to grant citizenship: jus soli (right of soil) and jus sanguinis (right of ancestry). America has chosen jus soli, which means that by international law it should grant citizenship to any person born in its territory (that includes embassies and consulates in other countries, BTW), regardless of parental citizenship.
Mexico has jus sanguinis, which means children born or Mexican citizens or have Mexican ancestry have a right to Mexican citizenship. So my legal status in Mexico at the time of birth is irrelevant since Mexico doesn’t grant nationality to children of foreigners. Even if I didn’t have my Mexican citizenship, my parents have theirs, so my kids would still be granted Mexican nationality.

Because America has jus soli, it can put any restrictions on jus sanguinis it wants. That’s why my kids don’t have American citizenship even though they have American ancestry. But if America changes their jus soli for jus sanguinis (and yes, it’s one or the other, you can’t put restrictions on both) then children and grandchildren of American citizens would have a right to citizenship regardless of where they’re born, like my nephews now hold Spanish citizenship as well, because their grandfather was Spanish.

So I ask again, which would you prefer? Because you can’t go around denying citizenship left and right and putting conditions against both jus soli or jus sanguinis. You have to pick one and live with the possibility that some people may take advantage of the system.
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:33 pm It depends. Are you in Mexico illegally? No? Then your kids should be Mexicans. If you're in America illegally, your kids should not be Americans. I don't see why this is so complicated for some of you.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:18 pm So you’re saying that my children should be American citizens even though they were born abroad because I am an American citizen?
Diamepphyre wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:09 pm

It IS ridiculous. If the parents are not already naturalized citizens, then the child should not be granted citizenship - except in its own parents' country of origin.
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msb64 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:45 pm
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:33 pm It depends. Are you in Mexico illegally? No? Then your kids should be Mexicans. If you're in America illegally, your kids should not be Americans. I don't see why this is so complicated for some of you.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:18 pm So you’re saying that my children should be American citizens even though they were born abroad because I am an American citizen?

I think why you are confused is because you seem to think there are two classes of people in the US - citizens and illegal immigrants - which totally discounts the hundreds of thousands of legal green card and visa holders. In M2B's case, she is a US citizen (has said so multiple times). She has not lived in the US for enough years for her children to be granted US citizenship. This is the case for many expats.
That's fine. I never said her kids should get US citizenship. I simply said (and it IS REALLY SIMPLE if you just don't overthink it)

If you are not a US citizen then neither are your kids born in the US.

Super simple.
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Lol...


You heard it here first folks.

Kids should be citizens of the country they were born in as long as the parents are there legally.

Granted, we have about 44 million authorized immigrants living here so I guess it makes sense to just stick with Jus Soli .
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Actually, no.
My children don’t have a right to American citizenship and you know why? Because America grants citizenship by birth, not ancestry. In fact, my oldest leaves to study in America in 2 weeks and he needed a student visa because he’s not a citizen.
But I’m glad you think they should be welcome citizens of the U.S just for being my kids! So yeah, revoke citizenship by birth, but then you’ll have to grant it by ancestry!
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm Okay. Which means you are legal and so are your kids.

Be legal. Do it right.

Not legal? Bye.

God I hope Birthright Citizenship gets revoked. It's "frankly ridiculous."
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:40 pm No, I have dual citizenship.
morgan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:32 pm Was this question ever answered?

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