CONCENTRATION CAMPS

[Momto2boys973]

Yeah.. but car windows don’t cost $25 billion and require millions a year in maintenance...
Do you really think throwing that money on something that may or may not deter a handful of people and will ultimately do nothing significant to stop illegal immigration is worth it?

The main problems I had with building a 40 ft wall is that I didn’t think it would help much ( I mean, they sell 50ft ladders at Walmart) and I think it was way too much money to spend on something that wasn’t going to work... plus the whole “ we’ll get Mexico to pay for it” line was just causing a fight between nations that was not going to be helpful to anyone.

I do think there should be border security and I do think we need to vet everyone coming over and make sure there are no dangerous criminals getting in, but I don’t think we’re going about it in a right or moral way right now.

That "new and improved" technology is now 25+ years old. But, yes, they tried. As far as I understood things from then, there was supposed to be some kind of barrier, possibly a fence, all along the border. I'm pretty sure it was in a bill, but the funding was just somehow never there in the dem-run Houses we had.

I really would like to have a barrier, more than just a fence, though, along the border. I just believe it is necessary to delineate somehow the line between two sovereign countries. Either that, or armed guards every 20 feet or so.... Or maybe moats and alligators along the border for the parts that a fence/barrier won't do??? (sarc.) I'm not pretending to have all the answers, but I also don't believe this is a problem that just came up in the past 24 months. I think it is a fluid kind of thing -- crossings are up in this area, but down over there because of X, then up over there and down over that way... always changing depending on what tech is where, how many agents in an area, etc. Whatever the answer may be, we have to try to stop the millions of illegal crossings. As you are well aware, we don't have the necessary space, supplies, or manpower to effectively deal with the ones we have now.... I am glad that Trump got Mexico on board to help stop some of the migration northwards... that should be a huge help!! (Way past due, but still glad to have it now!)

Valid point. Walls can be scaled or dug under. I guess it's the same thing as locking your car - yes the window can be broken and your car can be breached, however, it will deter a large amount of would be thieves. Why make it easy, right?

I was watching a video talking with some people who have farms on the border. It was pretty interesting. They took a walk to the actual border and there are many miles where there is no clear line of demarcation. It's literally a 2x4 laying in some dust. There truly is a lack of barrier.

One farmer stated that they've caught about half a million people crossing illegally and hiding out on his land the last 25 years. That's just one guy.

I can't imagine how uneasy and vulnerable these people must feel that live in these border towns. They must never rest easy, not knowing who's hiding in their shed, who's crawled into their car to lay low, who's broken into their barn to take a nap. I'm just very grateful to be in the Midwest.

[Momto2boys973]

And how exactly did you think those trade deals and tariffs would mean billions of dollars for construction and millions of dollars for maintenance?
That’s the thing: Trump babbled a stupidity. And his followers took the bait, line and sinker and even used it as a mantra to adore him. And what he said is not only useless, it’s unviable and false.
If you take a little time to get rid of all that fog about the “bad hombres” and “rapists” and how these “criminals are invading America” to see the reality, you’ll realize Trump was just feeding you his Kool Aid to convince you the wall is THE only solution when it’s thing of the sort. There are more better ways of not only dealing with immigration, but taking advantage of the situation. Fact is, when Trump made that promise he did it to egg on the racists already cheering for him into a frenzy. He didn’t look ahead to a time where he may have to deliver on that promise or lose supporters (not that I think that those brainwashed enough would ever stop adoring him, regardless of what he does) and oh boy... it turns out the wall isn’t only useless, it’s impossible to build. He’s in a pickle now. What a convenient time to suddenly have a “crisis” at the border.

I always took that "Mexico will pay for it" as new trade deals, or tariffs, not that Mexico would roll over and cut us a check for a wall. And I don't care if it is a wall, a moat, an electric fence, or what... but we definitely need something! I'm not as certain as you that a 40' wall would not work at all... I just don't know if it would or not, but I'm ready to try anything at this point.

The main problems I had with building a 40 ft wall is that I didn’t think it would help much ( I mean, they sell 50ft ladders at Walmart) and I think it was way too much money to spend on something that wasn’t going to work... plus the whole “ we’ll get Mexico to pay for it” line was just causing a fight between nations that was not going to be helpful to anyone.

I do think there should be border security and I do think we need to vet everyone coming over and make sure there are no dangerous criminals getting in, but I don’t think we’re going about it in a right or moral way right now.

That "new and improved" technology is now 25+ years old. But, yes, they tried. As far as I understood things from then, there was supposed to be some kind of barrier, possibly a fence, all along the border. I'm pretty sure it was in a bill, but the funding was just somehow never there in the dem-run Houses we had.

I really would like to have a barrier, more than just a fence, though, along the border. I just believe it is necessary to delineate somehow the line between two sovereign countries. Either that, or armed guards every 20 feet or so.... Or maybe moats and alligators along the border for the parts that a fence/barrier won't do??? (sarc.) I'm not pretending to have all the answers, but I also don't believe this is a problem that just came up in the past 24 months. I think it is a fluid kind of thing -- crossings are up in this area, but down over there because of X, then up over there and down over that way... always changing depending on what tech is where, how many agents in an area, etc. Whatever the answer may be, we have to try to stop the millions of illegal crossings. As you are well aware, we don't have the necessary space, supplies, or manpower to effectively deal with the ones we have now.... I am glad that Trump got Mexico on board to help stop some of the migration northwards... that should be a huge help!! (Way past due, but still glad to have it now!)

[Deleted User 1344]

Yes!!!
Thank you!!!
It’s so good to read a post with FACTS!!!!

You realize that you’re talking about nearly 2000 miles of border and that the terrain isn’t a nice flat, dry, easily maleable surface and therefore it’s impossible to build a wall along the whole border, right? You also do know that more than half the area is privately owned, right? And how exactly do you expect to build a wall along the Rio Grande?
Are you aware that most illegal immigrants don’t enter through the border illegally and that those that do usually don’t jump the fence. They use tunnels.
And if you claim there’s not enough money for more agents (I would love to see where you got that fact from), where do you expect the alleged $25 billion required for Trump’s wall to come from? And where do you expect to get the millions that will be required for the required maintenance and patrolling of that wall?
It seems Trump and his followers think building a wall IRL is as easy as doing it on Clash of Kings. You just click on a point in the map, drag the cursor and let go where you wall your wall to end and voila! It drops from the sky!

Honestly, I didn't think you felt that way, I took you for an open borders supporter.... I don't think I ever asked, and just assumed based on some of your other views. I apologize for that, I really shouldn't have assumed.

One thing, I don't think we can do much better with what we have now... congress won't do a thing, won't authorize more money to help. We don't have the money for more agents, if we even have the applicants. I don't know how that works, tbh. But in any case, we simply don't have the manpower, the money, the supplies, or the space to do what we really NEED to do right now. So, can we tell them the border is shut, we can't take any more??? That really doesn't work... and we can't leave them in the desert, nor can we just let them go off to the wild blue yonder. I don't know what to do for the "right now" except to get on Congress' ass to get something done.

I always took that "Mexico will pay for it" as new trade deals, or tariffs, not that Mexico would roll over and cut us a check for a wall. And I don't care if it is a wall, a moat, an electric fence, or what... but we definitely need something! I'm not as certain as you that a 40' wall would not work at all... I just don't know if it would or not, but I'm ready to try anything at this point.

The main problems I had with building a 40 ft wall is that I didn’t think it would help much ( I mean, they sell 50ft ladders at Walmart) and I think it was way too much money to spend on something that wasn’t going to work... plus the whole “ we’ll get Mexico to pay for it” line was just causing a fight between nations that was not going to be helpful to anyone.

I do think there should be border security and I do think we need to vet everyone coming over and make sure there are no dangerous criminals getting in, but I don’t think we’re going about it in a right or moral way right now.

[Deleted User 670]

I've noticed that many of you are unaware of what Concentration camps are.

Here you go:

Concentration camps persecute their prisoners by violent means: starvation, rape, mass killings, torture, etc.

What we are seeing at the Southern border are detainment facilities created to ensure that illegal migrants don't go underground to avoid deportation.

You're welcome.

Children are reporting rapes, violence, being drugged to be compliant, lack of food. That sounds like violence, starvation and torture to me.

[Valentina327]

Yeah.. but car windows don’t cost $25 billion and require millions a year in maintenance...
Do you really think throwing that money on something that may or may not deter a handful of people and will ultimately do nothing significant to stop illegal immigration is worth it?

The main problems I had with building a 40 ft wall is that I didn’t think it would help much ( I mean, they sell 50ft ladders at Walmart) and I think it was way too much money to spend on something that wasn’t going to work... plus the whole “ we’ll get Mexico to pay for it” line was just causing a fight between nations that was not going to be helpful to anyone.

I do think there should be border security and I do think we need to vet everyone coming over and make sure there are no dangerous criminals getting in, but I don’t think we’re going about it in a right or moral way right now.

Valid point. Walls can be scaled or dug under. I guess it's the same thing as locking your car - yes the window can be broken and your car can be breached, however, it will deter a large amount of would be thieves. Why make it easy, right?

I was watching a video talking with some people who have farms on the border. It was pretty interesting. They took a walk to the actual border and there are many miles where there is no clear line of demarcation. It's literally a 2x4 laying in some dust. There truly is a lack of barrier.

One farmer stated that they've caught about half a million people crossing illegally and hiding out on his land the last 25 years. That's just one guy.

I can't imagine how uneasy and vulnerable these people must feel that live in these border towns. They must never rest easy, not knowing who's hiding in their shed, who's crawled into their car to lay low, who's broken into their barn to take a nap. I'm just very grateful to be in the Midwest.

I don't know. I think there needs to be some physical barrier as the "line in the sand" so to speak. There are miles where there is nothing - an old board on the ground, a wooden horse. My personal opinion is that I think more agents would be the way to go.

Let's put it this way - I think whatever the guys think that are there every day for the last 20 years protecting our borders. LOL

Honestly, what I think is that border patrol agents should be pulled in by the President to consult and advise what works as a deterrent and what does not. They're the ones that know. Congress and the Senate don't know. The President doesn't know. We the people certainly don't know. The guys in the trenches know.

There clearly is an issue that's needed to be addressed for a while. I think a logical, common sense solution is in order. And I don't believe that's a 50 foot wall.

[Valentina327]

And how exactly did you think those trade deals and tariffs would mean billions of dollars for construction and millions of dollars for maintenance?
That’s the thing: Trump babbled a stupidity. And his followers took the bait, line and sinker and even used it as a mantra to adore him. And what he said is not only useless, it’s unviable and false.
If you take a little time to get rid of all that fog about the “bad hombres” and “rapists” and how these “criminals are invading America” to see the reality, you’ll realize Trump was just feeding you his Kool Aid to convince you the wall is THE only solution when it’s thing of the sort. There are more better ways of not only dealing with immigration, but taking advantage of the situation. Fact is, when Trump made that promise he did it to egg on the racists already cheering for him into a frenzy. He didn’t look ahead to a time where he may have to deliver on that promise or lose supporters (not that I think that those brainwashed enough would ever stop adoring him, regardless of what he does) and oh boy... it turns out the wall isn’t only useless, it’s impossible to build. He’s in a pickle now. What a convenient time to suddenly have a “crisis” at the border.

I always took that "Mexico will pay for it" as new trade deals, or tariffs, not that Mexico would roll over and cut us a check for a wall. And I don't care if it is a wall, a moat, an electric fence, or what... but we definitely need something! I'm not as certain as you that a 40' wall would not work at all... I just don't know if it would or not, but I'm ready to try anything at this point.

The main problems I had with building a 40 ft wall is that I didn’t think it would help much ( I mean, they sell 50ft ladders at Walmart) and I think it was way too much money to spend on something that wasn’t going to work... plus the whole “ we’ll get Mexico to pay for it” line was just causing a fight between nations that was not going to be helpful to anyone.

I do think there should be border security and I do think we need to vet everyone coming over and make sure there are no dangerous criminals getting in, but I don’t think we’re going about it in a right or moral way right now.

I think he doesn't know either. At the time he was touting the wall, he had no clue what would work. I'm sure he didn't do any in-depth analysis of border patrol strategy as part of his campaign. He picked an issue and he ran with it.

However, now that he's in office and has the resources, I'd expect him to pull experts in to see if that kind of thing really does work and if it does make sense.

[29again]

They built a wall all the way around China. Centuries ago. I think it could be done again. There is a concept called eminent domain. I'm not fond of it, by far, but for national security, I think that is reasonable. OR, let the ranchers that own that land do what they feel they need to do to protect their land............. I also believe I said a fence, a wall, whatever is needed, so long as it is a barrier.
How do you know just how most illegals cross the border, and where? You are aware that we don't even catch ALL who cross, because they still show up all over the country. We have tech to find and destroy the tunnels, I believe. It's like your saying the house is on fire, but let's get the plumbing fixed first. Good golly! Can't we get a barrier AND destroy the tunnels, too? It isn't a one-or-the-other kind of thing.

I know that many in Congress have said they will not support more money for the border, they don't think CBP can spend it wisely, and they want to abolish ICE. I said I don't know how they find agents, but if Congress doesn't approve the money, then we don't get more agents. the money is there, I'm sure, but we have this thing called Congress that determines how and where the money is spent.
No, we don't spend our days on video games... we are too busy trying to save our country. But I'm happy for you that have the time to waste on video games. Is that a good one, fun to play? It's been a long time since I played video games.

You realize that you’re talking about nearly 2000 miles of border and that the terrain isn’t a nice flat, dry, easily maleable surface and therefore it’s impossible to build a wall along the whole border, right? You also do know that more than half the area is privately owned, right? And how exactly do you expect to build a wall along the Rio Grande?
Are you aware that most illegal immigrants don’t enter through the border illegally and that those that do usually don’t jump the fence. They use tunnels.
And if you claim there’s not enough money for more agents (I would love to see where you got that fact from), where do you expect the alleged $25 billion required for Trump’s wall to come from? And where do you expect to get the millions that will be required for the required maintenance and patrolling of that wall?
It seems Trump and his followers think building a wall IRL is as easy as doing it on Clash of Kings. You just click on a point in the map, drag the cursor and let go where you wall your wall to end and voila! It drops from the sky!

Honestly, I didn't think you felt that way, I took you for an open borders supporter.... I don't think I ever asked, and just assumed based on some of your other views. I apologize for that, I really shouldn't have assumed.

One thing, I don't think we can do much better with what we have now... congress won't do a thing, won't authorize more money to help. We don't have the money for more agents, if we even have the applicants. I don't know how that works, tbh. But in any case, we simply don't have the manpower, the money, the supplies, or the space to do what we really NEED to do right now. So, can we tell them the border is shut, we can't take any more??? That really doesn't work... and we can't leave them in the desert, nor can we just let them go off to the wild blue yonder. I don't know what to do for the "right now" except to get on Congress' ass to get something done.

I always took that "Mexico will pay for it" as new trade deals, or tariffs, not that Mexico would roll over and cut us a check for a wall. And I don't care if it is a wall, a moat, an electric fence, or what... but we definitely need something! I'm not as certain as you that a 40' wall would not work at all... I just don't know if it would or not, but I'm ready to try anything at this point.

The main problems I had with building a 40 ft wall is that I didn’t think it would help much ( I mean, they sell 50ft ladders at Walmart) and I think it was way too much money to spend on something that wasn’t going to work... plus the whole “ we’ll get Mexico to pay for it” line was just causing a fight between nations that was not going to be helpful to anyone.

I do think there should be border security and I do think we need to vet everyone coming over and make sure there are no dangerous criminals getting in, but I don’t think we’re going about it in a right or moral way right now.

[29again]

You're wrong. But whatever. I'm tired of some people acting as if the problems of the past 2 decades only began 2 years ago. I can't really take those people all that seriously when they refuse to see reality. Just because you didn't see all those people on the way through Mexico doesn't mean they didn't go through Mexico to get to the States.

And how exactly did you think those trade deals and tariffs would mean billions of dollars for construction and millions of dollars for maintenance?
That’s the thing: Trump babbled a stupidity. And his followers took the bait, line and sinker and even used it as a mantra to adore him. And what he said is not only useless, it’s unviable and false.
If you take a little time to get rid of all that fog about the “bad hombres” and “rapists” and how these “criminals are invading America” to see the reality, you’ll realize Trump was just feeding you his Kool Aid to convince you the wall is THE only solution when it’s thing of the sort. There are more better ways of not only dealing with immigration, but taking advantage of the situation. Fact is, when Trump made that promise he did it to egg on the racists already cheering for him into a frenzy. He didn’t look ahead to a time where he may have to deliver on that promise or lose supporters (not that I think that those brainwashed enough would ever stop adoring him, regardless of what he does) and oh boy... it turns out the wall isn’t only useless, it’s impossible to build. He’s in a pickle now. What a convenient time to suddenly have a “crisis” at the border.

I always took that "Mexico will pay for it" as new trade deals, or tariffs, not that Mexico would roll over and cut us a check for a wall. And I don't care if it is a wall, a moat, an electric fence, or what... but we definitely need something! I'm not as certain as you that a 40' wall would not work at all... I just don't know if it would or not, but I'm ready to try anything at this point.

The main problems I had with building a 40 ft wall is that I didn’t think it would help much ( I mean, they sell 50ft ladders at Walmart) and I think it was way too much money to spend on something that wasn’t going to work... plus the whole “ we’ll get Mexico to pay for it” line was just causing a fight between nations that was not going to be helpful to anyone.

I do think there should be border security and I do think we need to vet everyone coming over and make sure there are no dangerous criminals getting in, but I don’t think we’re going about it in a right or moral way right now.

[Della]

I wasn’t born for a substantial part of Reagan’s presidency... which deal was made with democrats in relation to the border that was not upheld?

There was a crisis at the border before Trump came along. It was handled in a very different way, one that did not follow our immigration laws.

Trump has offered more than once to work with the dems about DACA and the Dreamers, about asylum/amnesty, IF they would fund at least part of the wall. They refused. And Ryan pretty much refused to work with Trump on anything, so nothing happened with him. So, please, get something to help with the TDS and realize that there is a problem that has been there for a LONG time, and that someone is FINALLY doing something about it.

With those two facts in mind, the rest of your lecture is patronizing and self-serving. I remember the deal made with Reagan, the deal which the democrats never kept their part of, which was the beginning of the border crisis we have today. This crisis didn't happen in a mere 2 years, you know...

For starters, I would stop escalating the conflict. Everyone knows Trump is the one creating this “border crisis” as a way to egg on his followers and demand his wall. Isn’t it funny that there wasn’t a “border crisis” at the border until his wall was rejected? He throws his usual tantrums, he bullies, he shuts down the government and still he didn’t get his way and suddenly, what do you know? A convenient “border crisis” accelerates. You don’t need to be Niccolò Machiavelli to figure that one out...

So I probably wouldn’t have myself a “crisis” to fix, since I wouldn’t out my winded ego above the well being of my country and other human beings. But let’s pretend for arguments sake. For starters, I would follow International Law and follow the protocols for asylum seekers in an effective way. It was Trump’s tantrum demanding these asylum seekers stay in Mexico and be treated like criminals and “invaders” rather than following the law and processing their requests with the efficiency America is allegedly known for (I mean, even Mexican authorities, known for their inefficiency and bureaucracy did a better job...) that created the current problem. And it was what Trump wanted, really. I would approach Mexican authorities as equals to agree on a way to expedite the situation and make it as positive as possible for all parties involved. In other words, I would seek cooperation for the benefit of all, not bully them into doing what I want through threats and dropping the problem on their laps.

And then, if I had been as idiotic as Trump was to cause the situation that’s happening now... well, then I would have to admit my defeat in my “brilliant” plan to trick America into thinking that wall was an absolute necessity and I would have to provide proper, humane treatment to these human beings that don’t deserve to be treated like rabid dogs.I would then start properly processing the asylum requests according to the law, as I should’ve done since the beginning. I would deport those trying to cross illegally, and I would provide proper accommodations to unaccompanied minors. I would approach Congress with suggestions for dealing with this situation humanely, without putting America at risk. I’m sure that the Democrats would be more than willing to cooperate if we we’re trying to look for a positive solution. I would certainly not become a criminal myself by dehumanizing, vilifying, demeaning, insulting and mistreating innocent human beings just because I’m pissed that I didn’t get my way and they’re convenient scapegoats that can actually help me now.

The IRCA of 1986.

[Della]

That "new and improved" technology is now 25+ years old. But, yes, they tried. As far as I understood things from then, there was supposed to be some kind of barrier, possibly a fence, all along the border. I'm pretty sure it was in a bill, but the funding was just somehow never there in the dem-run Houses we had.

I really would like to have a barrier, more than just a fence, though, along the border. I just believe it is necessary to delineate somehow the line between two sovereign countries. Either that, or armed guards every 20 feet or so.... Or maybe moats and alligators along the border for the parts that a fence/barrier won't do??? (sarc.) I'm not pretending to have all the answers, but I also don't believe this is a problem that just came up in the past 24 months. I think it is a fluid kind of thing -- crossings are up in this area, but down over there because of X, then up over there and down over that way... always changing depending on what tech is where, how many agents in an area, etc. Whatever the answer may be, we have to try to stop the millions of illegal crossings. As you are well aware, we don't have the necessary space, supplies, or manpower to effectively deal with the ones we have now.... I am glad that Trump got Mexico on board to help stop some of the migration northwards... that should be a huge help!! (Way past due, but still glad to have it now!)

On the border patrols website it says :

The 1980s and 1990s saw a tremendous increase of illegal migration to America. The Border Patrol responded with increases in manpower and the implementation of modern technology. Infrared night-vision scopes, seismic sensors, and a modern computer processing system helped the Patrol locate, apprehend, and process those crossing into the U.S. illegally.

In an effort to bring a level of control to the border, Operation "Hold the Line" was established in 1993 in El Paso, and proved an immediate success. Agents and technology were concentrated in specific areas, providing a "show of force" to potential illegal border crossers. The drastic reduction in apprehensions prompted the Border Patrol to undertake a full-scale effort in San Diego, California, which accounted for more than half of illegal entries. Operation "Gatekeeper" was implemented in 1994, and reduced illegal entries in San Diego by more than 75% over the next few years.


So it seems like border security has increased since then. What would you have liked to see done that would increase security?

There was supposed to be border security along with it. It is mentioned in the NPR article I posted.
Also, in 87, he EO the children of the adults he gave amnesty to to also be legalized. For some reason, the children weren't included in the original bill. So, Reagan made that right.

The Secure Fence Act 2006.