CONCENTRATION CAMPS

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29again
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I meant bitching in the sense that so many Americans are complaining about the conditions at the border. But they don't support closing the border. They complain, but they don't want to do anything to fix anything. I'm sorry if I assigned a motive to your words you didn't mean, but that's how I took what you were saying.... so, I'm sorry for that. I'll try to not do that any more.
In another thread about this topic in general, I asked a member how she would fix the problems at the border, and I got no answer. Nobody has any solutions, but they block anything that might help. And now, some in Congress (the loudest) are saying they don't support giving more money to CBP and they want to abolish that agency as well as ICE. That attitude is what has me frustrated! THEY caused a problem, and then REFUSE to do anything to solve it. And yes, it does bother me that the detainment centers are referred to as concentration camps. I know that they are essentially the same, but that particular terminology is not even appropriate for this, imo. There are just so many differences, especially in how the people came to even be in the camps. I find it odd that you, of all people here, are OK with calling the centers concentration camps...

But, hey, since you're here, what would YOU do to fix the problem at the border?
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:08 pm Oh, yes. I’m sure my congressman in Texas will listen to me.
And ultimately, we all have a right to express our opinions. That’s not “bitching”. If you don’t want to read the opinions of others, then maybe you should stay if this site because that’s exactly what you’ll be reading everyday. Do you tell everyone to “stop their bitching” when you don’t like what they have to say?

I’m guessing I hit a nerve with these facts and it’s too disturbing for you to realize that America is indeed running concentration camps for these poor, innocent people. But telling me to shut up won’t change that.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:56 pm Yes, I know people have died. People came there already sick, and others got sick there... CBP is doing the best they possibly can with what they have. Why don't you call your congressman and try to get more funding for the border crisis, instead of bitching about all the problems there at the border?

Oh, and let's not forget that this crisis is practically 100% preventable, and would be much less severe if we had a secure border, and no benefits for the illegals.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:49 pm They’re still 2 different things and no one has accused America of having death camps. But both the conditions at the border’s concentration camps and the attitudes of the American government perfectly fit the definition. It’s exactly what they are.
Did you watch “Empire of the Sun”? The kid was in a concentration camp. Just because it wasn’t a death camp like Auschwitz, it doesn’t make it any less an actual concentration camp.
And BTW, did you know that several people at the border’s concentration camps have lost their lives already? The conditions are inhuman, but it’s acceptable for Trump and his supporters because they’ve worked hard in dehumanizing and vilifying these people. And it’s already caused several deaths. It’ll only get worse.

Expand your thinking


It’s possible to disagree with an article and not respond with a personal attack you know.
Try it.
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The term didn't change meanings just because people forgot what they meant...

The definition is still a reality...


"a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. "

That word "sometimes" really matters here... The ones who are calling them concentration camps are not saying that they are providing forced labor or awaiting mass execution, they are saying these camps are a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:45 pm Technically, yes. However, in today's usage, the two terms are synonymous. I think it is much better all the way around to not even use the term concentration camp, as it evokes the Holocaust.

BTW, you do know that not many made it out of the concentration camps alive, right? For far too many, the concentration camp WAS a death camp. Also, how many Japanese were sent to their deaths in the internment camps? I don't like that that even happened, and would never consider that to be a way to deal with a potential enemy, it was far better than the camps in Germany. And it is still a very different thing than hundreds of thousands bearing down on the border with no where to go....
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:35 pm Concentration camps and death camps are 2 different things.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:31 pm So we have detainment centers. Good to know, I was really worried about the concentration camps. I don't trust the government much, but I was pretty sure they weren't sending immigrants to their deaths.
Momto2boys973
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For starters, I would stop escalating the conflict. Everyone knows Trump is the one creating this “border crisis” as a way to egg on his followers and demand his wall. Isn’t it funny that there wasn’t a “border crisis” at the border until his wall was rejected? He throws his usual tantrums, he bullies, he shuts down the government and still he didn’t get his way and suddenly, what do you know? A convenient “border crisis” accelerates. You don’t need to be Niccolò Machiavelli to figure that one out...

So I probably wouldn’t have myself a “crisis” to fix, since I wouldn’t out my winded ego above the well being of my country and other human beings. But let’s pretend for arguments sake. For starters, I would follow International Law and follow the protocols for asylum seekers in an effective way. It was Trump’s tantrum demanding these asylum seekers stay in Mexico and be treated like criminals and “invaders” rather than following the law and processing their requests with the efficiency America is allegedly known for (I mean, even Mexican authorities, known for their inefficiency and bureaucracy did a better job...) that created the current problem. And it was what Trump wanted, really. I would approach Mexican authorities as equals to agree on a way to expedite the situation and make it as positive as possible for all parties involved. In other words, I would seek cooperation for the benefit of all, not bully them into doing what I want through threats and dropping the problem on their laps.

And then, if I had been as idiotic as Trump was to cause the situation that’s happening now... well, then I would have to admit my defeat in my “brilliant” plan to trick America into thinking that wall was an absolute necessity and I would have to provide proper, humane treatment to these human beings that don’t deserve to be treated like rabid dogs.I would then start properly processing the asylum requests according to the law, as I should’ve done since the beginning. I would deport those trying to cross illegally, and I would provide proper accommodations to unaccompanied minors. I would approach Congress with suggestions for dealing with this situation humanely, without putting America at risk. I’m sure that the Democrats would be more than willing to cooperate if we we’re trying to look for a positive solution. I would certainly not become a criminal myself by dehumanizing, vilifying, demeaning, insulting and mistreating innocent human beings just because I’m pissed that I didn’t get my way and they’re convenient scapegoats that can actually help me now.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:30 pm I meant bitching in the sense that so many Americans are complaining about the conditions at the border. But they don't support closing the border. They complain, but they don't want to do anything to fix anything. I'm sorry if I assigned a motive to your words you didn't mean, but that's how I took what you were saying.... so, I'm sorry for that. I'll try to not do that any more.
In another thread about this topic in general, I asked a member how she would fix the problems at the border, and I got no answer. Nobody has any solutions, but they block anything that might help. And now, some in Congress (the loudest) are saying they don't support giving more money to CBP and they want to abolish that agency as well as ICE. That attitude is what has me frustrated! THEY caused a problem, and then REFUSE to do anything to solve it. And yes, it does bother me that the detainment centers are referred to as concentration camps. I know that they are essentially the same, but that particular terminology is not even appropriate for this, imo. There are just so many differences, especially in how the people came to even be in the camps. I find it odd that you, of all people here, are OK with calling the centers concentration camps...

But, hey, since you're here, what would YOU do to fix the problem at the border?
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:08 pm Oh, yes. I’m sure my congressman in Texas will listen to me.
And ultimately, we all have a right to express our opinions. That’s not “bitching”. If you don’t want to read the opinions of others, then maybe you should stay if this site because that’s exactly what you’ll be reading everyday. Do you tell everyone to “stop their bitching” when you don’t like what they have to say?

I’m guessing I hit a nerve with these facts and it’s too disturbing for you to realize that America is indeed running concentration camps for these poor, innocent people. But telling me to shut up won’t change that.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:56 pm Yes, I know people have died. People came there already sick, and others got sick there... CBP is doing the best they possibly can with what they have. Why don't you call your congressman and try to get more funding for the border crisis, instead of bitching about all the problems there at the border?

Oh, and let's not forget that this crisis is practically 100% preventable, and would be much less severe if we had a secure border, and no benefits for the illegals.

❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
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You’re right.
The conditions in these camps are horrible, unsafe, with potential for deaths .
Those of us who have seen an actual concentration camp ( Dachau in Germany for example) can agree that these camps at the borders are pretty much similar.
But in Germany there were rows of bunk beds with mattresses for people to sleep on. In the camps here , people and kids sleep on cement floors
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:49 pm They’re still 2 different things and no one has accused America of having death camps. But both the conditions at the border’s concentration camps and the attitudes of the American government perfectly fit the definition. It’s exactly what they are.
Did you watch “Empire of the Sun”? The kid was in a concentration camp. Just because it wasn’t a death camp like Auschwitz, it doesn’t make it any less an actual concentration camp.
And BTW, did you know that several people at the border’s concentration camps have lost their lives already? The conditions are inhuman, but it’s acceptable for Trump and his supporters because they’ve worked hard in dehumanizing and vilifying these people. And it’s already caused several deaths. It’ll only get worse.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:45 pm Technically, yes. However, in today's usage, the two terms are synonymous. I think it is much better all the way around to not even use the term concentration camp, as it evokes the Holocaust.

BTW, you do know that not many made it out of the concentration camps alive, right? For far too many, the concentration camp WAS a death camp. Also, how many Japanese were sent to their deaths in the internment camps? I don't like that that even happened, and would never consider that to be a way to deal with a potential enemy, it was far better than the camps in Germany. And it is still a very different thing than hundreds of thousands bearing down on the border with no where to go....
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:35 pm Concentration camps and death camps are 2 different things.

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AZLizardLady wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:07 pm I wonder if Miss Ocasio-Cortez will attempt to dismiss her latest comparison as she has when she referenced that that world would be over in 12 years?

Here's some interesting links from perspectives about her concentration camp insinuation:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-ho ... p-comments
https://ijr.com/ny-jewish-group-denoun ... ion-camps/

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/survivo ... -1.7400644

https://www.jns.org/jewish-groups-slam- ... ion-camps/

I want to like AOC. I honestly do. I admire her tenacity, her fire, and her ambitions. But she needs to cut the hyperbole for effect back a considerable amount IMHO.

She's hurting her reelection chances as she is the Democrat party with her rants.
She's the democratic version of Trump.
Momto2boys973
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I agree. Comparisons aren’t meant to be identical. There have to be enough similarities, that’s all. And after all, we all know Trump achieved power by following Hitler’s methods. Why wouldn’t he continue to do so? Of course no one thinks that he will sink to the level of mass, systematic murder of the people he deems inferior, but at least this idea he thought was good: make them the “enemy”, dehumanize them, vilify them, make America scared of them and then you can mistreat them with the support of your followers.

As I asked on another thread, many countries have had “concentration camps” to deal with their prisoners. Are those all offended by her comparison also offended by those? We all know there’s nothing that can be compared to the degree of evil and cruelty that went on in Nazi camps. No one’s trying to do that. That doesn’t mean that these places don’t fit the overall definition of “concentration camps”. It is what they are. Are they to the level of Nazi concentration camps? Certainly not. And she didn’t say they were. But there’s enough mistreatment and cruelty in them to fit the definition, not to mention the attitude Trump promotes and encourages towards the people he’s locking up as prisoners in these places.

Let’s use another concept: a tyrant. Probably one of the ultimate tyrants in history was Henry VIII. But that doesn’t mean we can’t use that same term for Trump just because he doesn’t go around chopping off the heads of those who challenge him. By definition, he can be considered a tyrant. And pointing that out is certainly not insulting to Henry VIII’s victims.

Ledina60 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:48 am You’re right.
The conditions in these camps are horrible, unsafe, with potential for deaths .
Those of us who have seen an actual concentration camp ( Dachau in Germany for example) can agree that these camps at the borders are pretty much similar.
But in Germany there were rows of bunk beds with mattresses for people to sleep on. In the camps here , people and kids sleep on cement floors
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:49 pm They’re still 2 different things and no one has accused America of having death camps. But both the conditions at the border’s concentration camps and the attitudes of the American government perfectly fit the definition. It’s exactly what they are.
Did you watch “Empire of the Sun”? The kid was in a concentration camp. Just because it wasn’t a death camp like Auschwitz, it doesn’t make it any less an actual concentration camp.
And BTW, did you know that several people at the border’s concentration camps have lost their lives already? The conditions are inhuman, but it’s acceptable for Trump and his supporters because they’ve worked hard in dehumanizing and vilifying these people. And it’s already caused several deaths. It’ll only get worse.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:45 pm Technically, yes. However, in today's usage, the two terms are synonymous. I think it is much better all the way around to not even use the term concentration camp, as it evokes the Holocaust.

BTW, you do know that not many made it out of the concentration camps alive, right? For far too many, the concentration camp WAS a death camp. Also, how many Japanese were sent to their deaths in the internment camps? I don't like that that even happened, and would never consider that to be a way to deal with a potential enemy, it was far better than the camps in Germany. And it is still a very different thing than hundreds of thousands bearing down on the border with no where to go....

❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
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It makes you wonder if what they are aiming for is just open borders. The. It makes you question their sanity.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:30 pm I meant bitching in the sense that so many Americans are complaining about the conditions at the border. But they don't support closing the border. They complain, but they don't want to do anything to fix anything. I'm sorry if I assigned a motive to your words you didn't mean, but that's how I took what you were saying.... so, I'm sorry for that. I'll try to not do that any more.
In another thread about this topic in general, I asked a member how she would fix the problems at the border, and I got no answer. Nobody has any solutions, but they block anything that might help. And now, some in Congress (the loudest) are saying they don't support giving more money to CBP and they want to abolish that agency as well as ICE. That attitude is what has me frustrated! THEY caused a problem, and then REFUSE to do anything to solve it. And yes, it does bother me that the detainment centers are referred to as concentration camps. I know that they are essentially the same, but that particular terminology is not even appropriate for this, imo. There are just so many differences, especially in how the people came to even be in the camps. I find it odd that you, of all people here, are OK with calling the centers concentration camps...

But, hey, since you're here, what would YOU do to fix the problem at the border?
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:08 pm Oh, yes. I’m sure my congressman in Texas will listen to me.
And ultimately, we all have a right to express our opinions. That’s not “bitching”. If you don’t want to read the opinions of others, then maybe you should stay if this site because that’s exactly what you’ll be reading everyday. Do you tell everyone to “stop their bitching” when you don’t like what they have to say?

I’m guessing I hit a nerve with these facts and it’s too disturbing for you to realize that America is indeed running concentration camps for these poor, innocent people. But telling me to shut up won’t change that.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:56 pm Yes, I know people have died. People came there already sick, and others got sick there... CBP is doing the best they possibly can with what they have. Why don't you call your congressman and try to get more funding for the border crisis, instead of bitching about all the problems there at the border?

Oh, and let's not forget that this crisis is practically 100% preventable, and would be much less severe if we had a secure border, and no benefits for the illegals.

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I haven't heard anyone suggest open borders...

Treating these human beings in a humane way shouldn't be so controversial and argued.



.
BionicBunny wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:07 pm It makes you wonder if what they are aiming for is just open borders. The. It makes you question their sanity.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:30 pm I meant bitching in the sense that so many Americans are complaining about the conditions at the border. But they don't support closing the border. They complain, but they don't want to do anything to fix anything. I'm sorry if I assigned a motive to your words you didn't mean, but that's how I took what you were saying.... so, I'm sorry for that. I'll try to not do that any more.
In another thread about this topic in general, I asked a member how she would fix the problems at the border, and I got no answer. Nobody has any solutions, but they block anything that might help. And now, some in Congress (the loudest) are saying they don't support giving more money to CBP and they want to abolish that agency as well as ICE. That attitude is what has me frustrated! THEY caused a problem, and then REFUSE to do anything to solve it. And yes, it does bother me that the detainment centers are referred to as concentration camps. I know that they are essentially the same, but that particular terminology is not even appropriate for this, imo. There are just so many differences, especially in how the people came to even be in the camps. I find it odd that you, of all people here, are OK with calling the centers concentration camps...

But, hey, since you're here, what would YOU do to fix the problem at the border?
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:08 pm Oh, yes. I’m sure my congressman in Texas will listen to me.
And ultimately, we all have a right to express our opinions. That’s not “bitching”. If you don’t want to read the opinions of others, then maybe you should stay if this site because that’s exactly what you’ll be reading everyday. Do you tell everyone to “stop their bitching” when you don’t like what they have to say?

I’m guessing I hit a nerve with these facts and it’s too disturbing for you to realize that America is indeed running concentration camps for these poor, innocent people. But telling me to shut up won’t change that.

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That is incorrect. The actual official dictionary definitions of concentration camp are:

(marriam-webster) a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard

or

(oxford) a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities

Both cover what is going on at the Southern border. You don't get to just make up definitions as they suit you. Also, there have been accounts of rape, starvation, and torture in these camps.
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I don’t think anyone is suggesting that. There is such a thing as a healthy middle ground. It’s not either open borders or treating people inhumanely and lock them in deplorable and cruel conditions. And you have to question the sanity of anyone who beloeves that the only solution to a problem is to mistreat people.
BionicBunny wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:07 pm It makes you wonder if what they are aiming for is just open borders. The. It makes you question their sanity.
29again wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:30 pm I meant bitching in the sense that so many Americans are complaining about the conditions at the border. But they don't support closing the border. They complain, but they don't want to do anything to fix anything. I'm sorry if I assigned a motive to your words you didn't mean, but that's how I took what you were saying.... so, I'm sorry for that. I'll try to not do that any more.
In another thread about this topic in general, I asked a member how she would fix the problems at the border, and I got no answer. Nobody has any solutions, but they block anything that might help. And now, some in Congress (the loudest) are saying they don't support giving more money to CBP and they want to abolish that agency as well as ICE. That attitude is what has me frustrated! THEY caused a problem, and then REFUSE to do anything to solve it. And yes, it does bother me that the detainment centers are referred to as concentration camps. I know that they are essentially the same, but that particular terminology is not even appropriate for this, imo. There are just so many differences, especially in how the people came to even be in the camps. I find it odd that you, of all people here, are OK with calling the centers concentration camps...

But, hey, since you're here, what would YOU do to fix the problem at the border?
Momto2boys973 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:08 pm Oh, yes. I’m sure my congressman in Texas will listen to me.
And ultimately, we all have a right to express our opinions. That’s not “bitching”. If you don’t want to read the opinions of others, then maybe you should stay if this site because that’s exactly what you’ll be reading everyday. Do you tell everyone to “stop their bitching” when you don’t like what they have to say?

I’m guessing I hit a nerve with these facts and it’s too disturbing for you to realize that America is indeed running concentration camps for these poor, innocent people. But telling me to shut up won’t change that.

❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
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