Amazon opts out of building New York City headquarters

[Lemons]

That was about as senseless as it comes.

You have yet to explain the difference. How do you think a $3 billion dollars handout is any different than "writing a check"? It's $3 billion dollars that the city and state should have been receiving and weren't going to. If the city/state had actually written them a check then Amazon wouldn't have received the tax break. Either way is the same loss to the state/city.

There’s no handout involved
None

What was it that you said about low income people who pay no federal tax?

[Deleted User 276]

25,000 jobs at $150,000 average salary, 10 billion in tax revenue- 3 billion in subsidies. Net gain I 7 billion for NY. Not to mention the net effect to surrounding business.

Is there really a gain? There are a ton of tech jobs in NYC (NY's fastest growing sector) so Amazon has three choices when hiring, poach, hire outside of state, hire foreign workers. Poaching is the most cost effective. So if an IT person moves from JP Morgan to Amazon, Amazon gets there $48,000 but NYC doesn't get a change in tax revenue.

People don't like to commute, so there probably would be an increase is demand for housing in Queens but currently that is predominantly zoned single family residences and currently that housing is relatively inexpensive. In order to accommodate the "new" employees, Queens would have to rezone that area to allow for cluster housing/high rise. They would also have to invest in the schools, transportation, road ways, etc.

I don't know if it would have been worth it or not but I just wanted to point out that it's not as simplistic as the numbers you posted above.

People from Brooklyn, the Bronx, Long Island, Westchester County, Rockland County and Manhattan will commute to Queens. That is a lot of people that lost an opportunity.

Why wouldn't those same people commute to jobs that are currently available in NYC?

[Deleted User 276]

25,000 jobs at $150,000 average salary, 10 billion in tax revenue- 3 billion in subsidies. Net gain I 7 billion for NY. Not to mention the net effect to surrounding business.

Is there really a gain? There are a ton of tech jobs in NYC (NY's fastest growing sector) so Amazon has three choices when hiring, poach, hire outside of state, hire foreign workers. Poaching is the most cost effective. So if an IT person moves from JP Morgan to Amazon, Amazon gets there $48,000 but NYC doesn't get a change in tax revenue.

People don't like to commute, so there probably would be an increase is demand for housing in Queens but currently that is predominantly zoned single family residences and currently that housing is relatively inexpensive. In order to accommodate the "new" employees, Queens would have to rezone that area to allow for cluster housing/high rise. They would also have to invest in the schools, transportation, road ways, etc.

I don't know if it would have been worth it or not but I just wanted to point out that it's not as simplistic as the numbers you posted above.

So, increasing the tax base is a bad thing?

It depends. Sit in on a town planning commission meeting. Increasing the tax base has to coincide with increasing the infrastructure, schools, transportation, etc. There is a balance that has to be met and sometimes just increasing the tax base doesn't meet that balance. For example, in our town, we want to bring in business and thereby more people/real estate. But our water/electricity/internet grid is tapped. Our roadways can't handle additional traffic. Our schools can't handle additional students. Our zoning is such that we can't build additional residences. Our current businesses can't handle additional demand. So, the question is can we handle the influx if a large business were to move into our area. Sure! But not if we had to give that business subsidies. It just wouldn't happen.

[Carpy]

Is there really a gain? There are a ton of tech jobs in NYC (NY's fastest growing sector) so Amazon has three choices when hiring, poach, hire outside of state, hire foreign workers. Poaching is the most cost effective. So if an IT person moves from JP Morgan to Amazon, Amazon gets there $48,000 but NYC doesn't get a change in tax revenue.

People don't like to commute, so there probably would be an increase is demand for housing in Queens but currently that is predominantly zoned single family residences and currently that housing is relatively inexpensive. In order to accommodate the "new" employees, Queens would have to rezone that area to allow for cluster housing/high rise. They would also have to invest in the schools, transportation, road ways, etc.

I don't know if it would have been worth it or not but I just wanted to point out that it's not as simplistic as the numbers you posted above.

So, increasing the tax base is a bad thing?

It depends. Sit in on a town planning commission meeting. Increasing the tax base has to coincide with increasing the infrastructure, schools, transportation, etc. There is a balance that has to be met and sometimes just increasing the tax base doesn't meet that balance. For example, in our town, we want to bring in business and thereby more people/real estate. But our water/electricity/internet grid is tapped. Our roadways can't handle additional traffic. Our schools can't handle additional students. Our zoning is such that we can't build additional residences. Our current businesses can't handle additional demand. So, the question is can we handle the influx if a large business were to move into our area. Sure! But not if we had to give that business subsidies. It just wouldn't happen.

I'm on a town planning commision.

[Deleted User 276]

So, increasing the tax base is a bad thing?

It depends. Sit in on a town planning commission meeting. Increasing the tax base has to coincide with increasing the infrastructure, schools, transportation, etc. There is a balance that has to be met and sometimes just increasing the tax base doesn't meet that balance. For example, in our town, we want to bring in business and thereby more people/real estate. But our water/electricity/internet grid is tapped. Our roadways can't handle additional traffic. Our schools can't handle additional students. Our zoning is such that we can't build additional residences. Our current businesses can't handle additional demand. So, the question is can we handle the influx if a large business were to move into our area. Sure! But not if we had to give that business subsidies. It just wouldn't happen.

I'm on a town planning commision.

Then you know exactly what I'm talking about! Growth is good, until it isn't. There are so many factors that have to be looked at including the current demographic of the community. Sometimes added jobs and tax revenue is just not a good thing if it means increasing infrastructure, schools, transportation, and other services. I mean, out community is at the point that we can't add any more taps into the water/sewage. So if we want to have an influx of people (we don't) we have to totally revamp our public service association. It's not happening, but if it did, it would cost more than our community could sustain even if we got some more added tax base.

Just saying that it's more than "x" number of additional tax payers. That is so simplistic! Nothing is that simple.

[Carpy]

It depends. Sit in on a town planning commission meeting. Increasing the tax base has to coincide with increasing the infrastructure, schools, transportation, etc. There is a balance that has to be met and sometimes just increasing the tax base doesn't meet that balance. For example, in our town, we want to bring in business and thereby more people/real estate. But our water/electricity/internet grid is tapped. Our roadways can't handle additional traffic. Our schools can't handle additional students. Our zoning is such that we can't build additional residences. Our current businesses can't handle additional demand. So, the question is can we handle the influx if a large business were to move into our area. Sure! But not if we had to give that business subsidies. It just wouldn't happen.

I'm on a town planning commision.

Then you know exactly what I'm talking about! Growth is good, until it isn't. There are so many factors that have to be looked at including the current demographic of the community. Sometimes added jobs and tax revenue is just not a good thing if it means increasing infrastructure, schools, transportation, and other services. I mean, out community is at the point that we can't add any more taps into the water/sewage. So if we want to have an influx of people (we don't) we have to totally revamp our public service association. It's not happening, but if it did, it would cost more than our community could sustain even if we got some more added tax base.

Just saying that it's more than "x" number of additional tax payers. That is so simplistic! Nothing is that simple.

So, you are making the case against unregulated immigration. Hmmm. But NY was capable of handling this.

[Olioxenfree]

There are other places where the politicians are not idiots.

Kiind of funny though progressive hero Bezo, dissed by progressives.

The politicians are definitely not idiots if you bother to research how amazon has effected Seattle.

[TheQueenOfEverything]

why do you do that? nobody is screaming or crying. people are having a discussion. why can’t you participate by logically arguing your point instead of assigning negative emotional characteristics to the opposing position?

People from Brooklyn, the Bronx, Long Island, Westchester County, Rockland County and Manhattan will commute to Queens. That is a lot of people that lost an opportunity.

Queens residents don't want it! The subway is already a disaster, no room for all those people coming in. I love how all the rural people are piping up about how great it would be. How about volunteering your neighborhood?

There's a lot of abandoned real estate. If it's not Amazon - it'll be someone else. Going to still scream and cry when it's someone less popular than Amazon?

[jas]

why do you do that? nobody is screaming or crying. people are having a discussion. why can’t you participate by logically arguing your point instead of assigning negative emotional characteristics to the opposing position?

Queens residents don't want it! The subway is already a disaster, no room for all those people coming in. I love how all the rural people are piping up about how great it would be. How about volunteering your neighborhood?

There's a lot of abandoned real estate. If it's not Amazon - it'll be someone else. Going to still scream and cry when it's someone less popular than Amazon?

Are you serious?

[Billie.jeens]

There are other places where the politicians are not idiots.

Kiind of funny though progressive hero Bezo, dissed by progressives.

The politicians are definitely not idiots if you bother to research how amazon has effected Seattle.

The fastest growing big city in the US
$30 billion in direct benefit
$55 billion in spin off benefits